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    Intel Atom C2xxx LPC failures

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Hardware
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    • MikeV7896M
      MikeV7896
      last edited by

      @Wolf666:

      I also wrote to Supermicro in order to get a solution before failure occurs.

      Please let us know what they say… there are plenty here that have SuperMicro boards with the Atom C2xxx processors on them.

      The S in IOT stands for Security

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      • A
        athurdent
        last edited by

        I also contaced Supermicro yesterday, seems at least the European support did not know about the issue yet. Sent them an explanation and some links. Now they are checking with the PM of the motherboard.

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        • A
          athurdent
          last edited by

          Hmm, the Intel doc says stepping B0 is affected. My Supermicro board says:

          CPU: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  C2758  @ 2.40GHz (2400.07-MHz K8-class CPU)
            Origin="GenuineIntel"  Id=0x406d8  Family=0x6  Model=0x4d  Stepping=8
          
          

          From what I have gathered about steppings, the version normally consist of a letter followed by a number. So what could "8" mean?
          I'd love to think that Cisco got the whole B0 stepping, but then again my (and all the googled dmesg) results are missing the letter…

          Any experts on this?

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          • C
            Creep89
            last edited by

            CPU: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  C2558  @ 2.40GHz (2400.06-MHz K8-class CPU)
              Origin="GenuineIntel"  Id=0x406d8  Family=0x6  Model=0x4d  Stepping=8
            

            Well, yeah, that is not very helpful at all.

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            • N
              nifoc
              last edited by

              I also contacted Supermicro (EU) and asked them if it only affects one specific stepping.

              Apparently even they don't know if it only affects the B0 stepping, because Intel doesn't want to give out too many details.

              The hardware update Supermicro has in place (or will have in place) is for all A1 motherboards though.

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              • G
                gcu_greyarea
                last edited by

                @Creep89:

                CPU: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  C2558  @ 2.40GHz (2400.06-MHz K8-class CPU)
                  Origin="GenuineIntel"  Id=0x406d8  Family=0x6  Model=0x4d  Stepping=8
                

                Well, yeah, that is not very helpful at all.

                Have a look here:

                https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/specification-updates/atom-c2000-family-spec-update.pdf

                Page 15 Table 9

                CPUID: 406D8

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                • C
                  Creep89
                  last edited by

                  Oh, well. Thanks!  :-X

                  Guess I will buy/build a new pfSense appliance and then RMA my board. Not cool at all.

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                  • A
                    athurdent
                    last edited by

                    Supermicro support told me to RMA my board to get a "reworked" one. They do not handle RMAs directly with the customer, though. I bought it from Amazon.de. So much for my reworked version…

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                    • jimpJ
                      jimp Rebel Alliance Developer Netgate
                      last edited by

                      We're still investigating internally, we'll put out an official response once we have enough information.

                      You can also follow some additional conversation on the topic here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PFSENSE/comments/5s8pwi/intel_c_series_processor_recalls_are_pf_official/

                      Remember: Upvote with the 👍 button for any user/post you find to be helpful, informative, or deserving of recognition!

                      Need help fast? Netgate Global Support!

                      Do not Chat/PM for help!

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                      • G
                        grandrivers
                        last edited by

                        crap!!

                        CPU: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU  C2558  @ 2.40GHz (2400.06-MHz K8-class CPU)
                          Origin="GenuineIntel"  Id=0x406d8  Family=0x6  Model=0x4d  Stepping=8

                        pfsense plus 25.03 super micro A1SRM-2558F
                        C2558 32gig ECC  60gig SSD

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                        • dennypageD
                          dennypage
                          last edited by

                          FWIW, you probably don't need to go check your stepping. By Intel's data sheet, there has only been one stepping (B0) released to date for the Atom C2000 family.

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                          • dennypageD
                            dennypage
                            last edited by

                            And in case anyone missed it:

                            https://blog.pfsense.org/?p=2297

                            A very respectable response from Netgate.

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                            • L
                              liontaur
                              last edited by

                              @Jim:

                              Although most Netgate Security Gateway appliances will not experience this problem, we are committed to replacing or repairing products affected by this issue for a period of at least 3 years from date of sale, for the original purchaser.

                              That is a good post and I only have one related question now.

                              Does this mean that only devices that actually fail within the three years will be repaired/replaced or any devices with the susceptible CPU will be repaired/replaced within the three years regardless of whether they have actually suffered from the problem or not?

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                              • G
                                gcu_greyarea
                                last edited by

                                @liontaur:

                                @Jim:

                                Although most Netgate Security Gateway appliances will not experience this problem, we are committed to replacing or repairing products affected by this issue for a period of at least 3 years from date of sale, for the original purchaser.

                                That is a good post and I only have one related question now.

                                Does this mean that only devices that actually fail within the three years will be repaired/replaced or any devices with the susceptible CPU will be repaired/replaced within the three years regardless of whether they have actually suffered from the problem or not?

                                For a lot of enterprise customers the replacement cost of a faulty device is insignificant. Spending 500$ on a pfSense SG Appliance or 5000$ on a Cisco Router isn't really the problem. The problem for them is unpredictability and the impact and risk a component failure may produce. That's despite redundancy and the knowledge that failures will always happen.
                                Consider the potential downtime (and asdociated loss of business), change control, travel cost, overtime etc…
                                Cisco have chosen to pro-actively replace affected components because tgey do not want to expose their customers to any additional risk. The life expectancy of enterprise kit is approximately 3-5 years because by then the technology will be technically superseded. I've cetainly seen kit run 10+ years.

                                I'm a pfSense customer (for my employer and home) and my purchase decissions were made because of:

                                • quality intel Nic's in a purpose built product
                                • a large commnity develpping/supporting the software/pfsense project
                                • low power consumption
                                • a long life expectancy, certainly greater than 3 years
                                • no moving parts and fans

                                I am also keen to understand whether pfsense/netgate will do a pro-active replacement (like Cisco) or whether this will be a "fix-on-fail" program ?

                                "Fix-on-fail" means that pfSense is asking its customers to wear the risk mentioned above.

                                So back to liontaur's question?

                                • will my 4 appliances be replaced within 3 years irrespective of fault ?
                                • will my appliances only be replaced if they fail?
                                • what happens if my appliances fail after 3years+1days?

                                My expectation as a consumer is that my appliances will last well beyond 3 years of operation.

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                                • V
                                  VAMike
                                  last edited by

                                  @dennypage:

                                  A very respectable response from Netgate.

                                  Opinions differ. :) 3 years is a pretty short clock for fundamental design flaw.

                                  ^^^ When I wrote this I didn't realize the netgate warranty was only 1 year; I was thinking of supermicro's 3 year warranty and read it as a brush off. My bad.

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                                  • J
                                    jwt Netgate
                                    last edited by

                                    @gcu_greyarea:

                                    My expectation as a consumer is that my appliances will last well beyond 3 years of operation.

                                    First, you'll need to appreciate that, while I know the modeled failure rates of the component in-question, I can't release same.

                                    Second, your appliance will, in all likelihood, last  longer than three years.  The majority of at-risk Netgate products will not experience this failure over their entire service lifetime.

                                    Third, Cisco's offer isn't as "pro-active" as you suggest.  A careful read of Cisco's Ts & Cs should reveal the truth.

                                    Fourth, we feel we have a strong replacement policy, as it is not limited to the original warranty period or to systems covered by an existing support agreement, as others have announced.  Considering the likelihood of the failure occurring, we feel our limited extended warranty is the best course of action, because it results in less overall inconvenience, downtime, and demands on our customers and partners.

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                                    • J
                                      jwt Netgate
                                      last edited by

                                      @nifoc:

                                      I also contacted Supermicro (EU) and asked them if it only affects one specific stepping.

                                      Apparently even they don't know if it only affects the B0 stepping, because Intel doesn't want to give out too many details.

                                      Point in-fact, it's not that Supermicro doesn't know, as much as Supermicro can't tell you.

                                      Big difference.

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                                      • C
                                        chrcoluk
                                        last edited by

                                        odd no news stories on the web about this.

                                        pfSense CE 2.7.2

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                                        • M
                                          MiB
                                          last edited by

                                          The reality is that no matter what Netgate, Cisco, SuperMicro post about whether they'll proactively replace all devices that contain the affected CPUs, or just failed devices and try to limit their exposure to some lame 3 year limit. They'll quickly learn that a class action is going to change their position very quickly, and empty their pockets much quicker than if they just replaced all affected units from the get go. intel is obligated to support all the costs. They've already incorporated a charge for this in their latest earnings. There are provisions within in the law that don't allow companies to hide behind time limits on manufacturing defects (latent or otherwise). Just ask Apple.

                                          My advice, if you own an affected device, notify the supplier/manufacturer respectfully in writing that you expect a fixed replacement free of the defect within 90 days. If they don't comply, and/or don't reply, the law will set them straight and then some. Document your communications. A class action will be announced at some point.

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                                          • J
                                            JohnC. 0
                                            last edited by

                                            @jwt:

                                            @gcu_greyarea:

                                            My expectation as a consumer is that my appliances will last well beyond 3 years of operation.

                                            First, you'll need to appreciate that, while I know the modeled failure rates of the component in-question, I can't release same.

                                            Second, your appliance will, in all likelihood, last  longer than three years.  The majority of at-risk Netgate products will not experience this failure over their entire service lifetime.

                                            Third, Cisco's offer isn't as "pro-active" as you suggest.  A careful read of Cisco's Ts & Cs should reveal the truth.

                                            Fourth, we feel we have a strong replacement policy, as it is not limited to the original warranty period or to systems covered by an existing support agreement, as others have announced.  Considering the likelihood of the failure occurring, we feel our limited extended warranty is the best course of action, because it results in less overall inconvenience, downtime, and demands on our customers and partners.

                                            A trade up program would also be a good way to reduce the risk to the manufacturer as well as the customer. It is a win-win situation. Develop a system with the new InHell Pentagram processor family, give it a few fancy upgrades (Ram, interfaces, etc.) then offer the customer a pro-rated discount for their product based on service life. One thing I did find interesting about Netgate response was their assertion that their products won't be affected by this flaw… How exactly do they know that?

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