Private Mac addresses in IOS14

Derelict · Oct 5, 2020, 2:01 PM

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

Of course I would prefer to not have Amazon forcing me onto their network in Whole Foods

Forcing?

Oct 5, 2020, 2:11 PM

@Derelict said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

Of course I would prefer to not have Amazon forcing me onto their network in Whole Foods

Forcing?

Yup. They block cell signals. I've never been able to get a cell signal inside a Whole Foods. If you want to use your prime account you have no choice but to use their wifi network. So, point taken, I could just pay full price and not access their network.

I'm not a RF engineer but it appears to be passive blocking (faraday cage). Step outside the building and I get a full strength signal.

johnpoz · Oct 5, 2020, 2:16 PM

I don't really recall noticing this last time I was in a whole foods.. Last time was before covid.. Quite often stop at their in store taverns.. Tuesday's is 2$ bottle and can day at their instore bars.. And they normally have a decent selection..

So stop there after work many a tuesday for couple of cold ones ;)

But sure it behooves stores like this to control your internet access while your in the store, can prevent you from doing price compares, etc. Or atleast make it way more difficult - since hey odd how you can't get to store xyz site while on the whole foods wifi ;)

Problem could also be cell coverage in the middle of a HUGE store might just be spotty? But do believe amazon a few years back had a patent on such thing as controlling people in their stores internet access..

But force prob not the right word, more like direct you to their connection ;) Nothing saying you can't just leave your phone at home or in the car, or just turn it off, or put in airplane mode, etc.

Oct 5, 2020, 2:16 PM

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

I don't really recall noticing this last time I was in a whole foods.. Last time was before covid.. Quite often stop at their in store taverns.. Tuesday's is 2$ bottle and can day at their instore bars.. And they normally have a decent selection..

So stop there after work many a tuesday for couple of cold ones ;)

But sure it behooves stores like this to control your internet access while your in the store, can prevent you from doing price compares, etc. Or atleast make it way more difficult - since hey odd how you can't get to store xyz site while on the whole foods wifi ;)

Problem could also be cell coverage in the middle of a HUGE store might just be spotty? But do believe amazon a few years back had a patent on such thing as controlling people in their stores internet access..

As I remember Best Buy was doing that at some point in time. Blocking access to mitigate using Best Buy stores as an Amazon showroom. Haven't been in a Best Buy in a dogs age so I can't comment on the current situation.

johnpoz · Oct 5, 2020, 2:18 PM

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

using Best Buy stores as an Amazon showroom

hehehe - yeah this true.. Oh lets go see how the picture looks on tv xyz - then just order it on amazon for X $ cheaper ;)

Derelict · Oct 5, 2020, 2:18 PM

@jwj Force is still a strong word. If you don't like their policies don't shop there.

Oct 5, 2020, 2:21 PM

@Derelict said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

@jwj Force is still a strong word. If you don't like their policies don't shop there.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I got your point. I'll repeat it here: "So, point taken, I could just pay full price and not access their network."

johnpoz · Oct 5, 2020, 2:23 PM

Yeah persuade or direct, nudge might be better terms vs force ;)

I can still just use them as amazon showroom... Without any internet access there, just know before hand what I want to look at.. Go look at them, and then order or not when get home.

Saving a nickel on the all natural peanut butter though - this really is heavy handed forcing if you ask me ;) hehehe

Oct 5, 2020, 2:25 PM

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

Yeah persuade or direct, nudge might be better terms vs force ;)

I can still just use them as amazon showroom... Without any internet access there, just know before hand what I want to look at.. Go look at them, and then order or not when get home.

Saving a nickel on the all natural peanut butter though - this really is heavy handed forcing if you ask me ;) hehehe

Cost-Benefit. On a personal level: natural peanut butter? Yuck ;)

stephenw10 · Oct 5, 2020, 2:26 PM

Security vs convenience, the eternal trade-off.

johnpoz · Oct 5, 2020, 2:38 PM

@stephenw10 said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

Security vs convenience, the eternal trade-off

So true, so true.. But not only "security" privacy as well.. Do I really want to make it easy for store xyz to know my purchasing habits, for the X% discount they give me if I use their rewards card, etc.

People screaming about privacy, yet give their info away freely if there is anything in it for them that they value more... Like 0.05% discount on purchases, or get 1 free after I buy 5.. etc..

And then scream about getting ads for XYZ in the store app on their phone - how did they know I like that?

You can not have your cake and eat it too.. The whole reason company gives you discount X, is they know they will pull you back more often, or can use that info to get you to buy more, or sell that info to someone else - So they end up making way more than the tiny discount/reward they give you..

Oct 5, 2020, 2:37 PM

MVP, VIC, VIP, etc cards. I do have loyalty cards associated with xxx-555-1212. I have no idea if that does anything at all or if it even matters if someone knows I buy corn flakes twice a month.

johnpoz · Oct 5, 2020, 2:42 PM

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

have no idea if that does anything at all or if it even matters if someone knows I buy corn flakes twice a month.

All comes down to how tight your tin foil hat is ;) heheheh

Sorry but the genie is out of the bottle.. Companies have figured out that information is money... The more information I have about user X, the more money I can make if not off user X directly, there are many ways to monetize that info in all kinds of new ways..

Hey milk company A, user X likes cereal - you could prob get him to buy your milk if you do xyz, etc.. For every user name I give you that uses products that would go good with your product, just give me X money..

Derelict · Oct 5, 2020, 2:42 PM

I navigated Vegas casino promotions for a few years looking for an edge.

Grocery shopping is exponentially more difficult.

Oct 5, 2020, 2:46 PM

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

have no idea if that does anything at all or if it even matters if someone knows I buy corn flakes twice a month.

All comes down to how tight your tin foil hat is ;) heheheh

Sorry but the genie is out of the bottle.. Companies have figured out that information is money... The more information I have about user X, the more money I can make not off user X, but there are many ways to monetize that info in all kinds of new ways..

Hey milk company A, user X likes cereal - you could prob get him to buy your milk if you do xyz, etc..

Sure! Knowing that means what? I'm actually interested in others opinions. As you have said before, being concerned about such things while having your smart phone with you 24/7 may be missing the point. When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?

johnpoz · Oct 5, 2020, 2:56 PM

Yeah there can be benefits to giving away your info, or always going to business X..

There is rock bottom by work.. With their reward card you get 10$ rewards for every 100 you spend.. I got there so much that I get now $10 reward on every $50 I spend..

The beer is not horrible, its very close to work, and its ok venue.. So sure - I have given up the privacy of letting them associate all purchases I make with my reward card.. But 20% cheaper beer is 20% cheaper beer ;) hehehe

I don't have a problem with it - but some people, who really if they want privacy - should only be using cash, don't frequent the same establishment... Should only be using burner phones, that they cycle every couple of months. etc. etc..

edit:

When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?

Prevent what sort of tracking? To be honest, if your typical consumer? You can sure attempt to hide X from Y... But your not going to hide X from everyone, and X normally shares info and works with Y anyway.. It really becomes moot almost..

Lets look at it this way.. I block ads, not so much as to worried about ad company tracking that I clicked on ad X.. I just don't like looking at all of them... They make websites look like shit, etc.

To be honest the only way your going to get companies from tracking info about users for monetary reasons, is to regulate it.. But all that does is really force them to ask you if ok.. Which most users are going to say sure, for X discount, you can have my soul ;)

JKnott · Oct 5, 2020, 2:48 PM

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

I'm not a RF engineer but it appears to be passive blocking (faraday cage). Step outside the building and I get a full strength signal.

Actually, that's common with modern building construction, where reinforced concrete is used. I see the same thing in the grocery store where I shop. I get a great signal near the front, but not so great at the back of the store. Several years ago, I worked in the IBM Canada HQ. In there, once you got away from the windows, cell and even FM radio coverage would drop. A proper Faraday cage would be expensive and active blocking (jammers) is flat out illegal. There's a big convention centre in Toronto, where WiFi cost $400/day. They tried using jammers, until they were charged for violating the law. What was worse is it would even interfere with people out on the street, even though they were doing nothing more than walking by.

Oct 5, 2020, 2:55 PM

@JKnott said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

I'm not a RF engineer but it appears to be passive blocking (faraday cage). Step outside the building and I get a full strength signal.

Actually, that's common with modern building construction, where reinforced concrete is used. I see the same thing in the grocery store where I shop. I get a great signal near the front, but not so great at the back of the store. Several years ago, I worked in the IBM Canada HQ. In there, once you got away from the windows, cell and even FM radio coverage would drop. A proper Faraday cage would be expensive and active blocking (jammers) is flat out illegal. There's a big convention centre in Toronto, where WiFi cost $400/day. They tried using jammers, until they were charged for violating the law. What was worse is it would even interfere with people out on the street, even though they were doing nothing more than walking by.

My experience is this: no service 2 meters from the front wall at the register. Full strength signal 1 meter outside the building. I'll leave the conclusions to those with actual professional knowledge.

A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.

johnpoz · Oct 5, 2020, 2:59 PM

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.

But using glass that blocks wifi, or other building materials that hamper wifi/cell not "active" jamming ;)

Always a way to skin a cat.. You just need to know what breed of cat it is ;)

Oct 5, 2020, 2:59 PM

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

Yeah there can be benefits to giving away your info, or always going to business X..

There is rock bottom by work.. With their reward card you get 10$ rewards for every 100 you spend.. I got there so much that I get now $10 reward on every $50 I spend..

The beer is not horrible, its very close to work, and its ok venue.. So sure - I have given up the privacy of letting them associate all purchases I make with my reward card.. But 20% cheaper beer is 20% cheaper beer ;) hehehe

I don't have a problem with it - but some people, who really if they want privacy - should only be using cash, don't frequent the same establishment... Should only be using burner phones, that they cycle every couple of months. etc. etc..

edit:

When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?

Prevent what sort of tracking? To be honest, if your typical consumer? You can sure attempt to hide X from Y... But your not going to hide X from everyone, and X normally shares info and works with Y anyway.. It really becomes moot almost..

Lets look at it this way.. I block ads, not so much as to worried about ad company tracking that I clicked on ad X.. I just don't like looking at all of them... They make websites look like shit, etc.

To be honest the only way your going to get companies from tracking info about users for monetary reasons, is to regulate it.. But all that does is really force them to ask you if ok.. Which most users are going to say sure, for X discount, you can have my soul ;)

One thing is certain. The more money that can be made the more sophisticated the tracking will get and more money will be spent to influence legislative approaches.