Netgate 6100 SSDs

stephenw10

You can use either m.2 slot. Or both. The slots are B-keyed, yes, but since all NVMe drives are M-keyed you need one that's B and M keyed to fit. Or at least I've never seen a B only keyed NVMe drive. If one exists that would probably also work.

Steve

keyser

Thanks, in my 6100 all slots are empty. But I got confirmation I can use any of the two NVME slots to add a new drive. Opening the 6100 is actually very easy if you have the right torx screwdriver.

If all your slots are empty it’s because you did not buy the MAX model (just like me). So what you have worn out is the built in 16Gb eMMC. Good thing you can install a SSD, otherwise the box would be useless.

muenchris

@keyser Yes that is what Netgate support told me, too.

muenchris

@muenchris Well, I got my drive and put it in one of the eNVM slots, but during the install the drive is not recognized.
Is there any way to "mount" or format the drive for use by the pfsense installer? (Sorry I am a windows guy and linux is not my expertise)

stephenw10

The installer will partition and format the drive you don't normally need to do anything to prepare it.

Do you see it detected in the boot log?

Like:

nvme0: Allocated 16MB host memory buffer
nvd0: <M.2 (P80) 3TE6> NVMe namespace
nvd0: 114473MB (234441648 512 byte sectors)

muenchris

@stephenw10 Not that text. I see "NVME Lens loading/installing" but not any other entries

keyser

@muenchris Weird. I would check the install again, or perhaps try the other keyed slot for Storage - Just to to rule out a misalignment/contact issue. If that doesn’t work either, it’s probably the SSD….

RobbieTT

In case of any doubt, the slot you should be using on the 6100:

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stephenw10

You should be able to use either m.2 slot on the 6100 (or both) it will boot from either.

RobbieTT

@stephenw10
Good to know.

Zero effort/skill demo:

I'm available for all the photoshop skills you don't need.

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muenchris

@RobbieTT I tried two different SSDs one 64GB one 128GB from different vendors. Both did not work in bothe slots - not showing in bootlog or installer as an option.

The Optane from intel is discontinued. Are there other SSDs recommended?

I tried this one: https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-512GB-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B07H21182F/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1DQADOIVOQMFR&keywords=ssd+b-keyd&qid=1692475071&sprefix=ssd+b-key%2Caps%2C362&sr=8-5

and this one: https://www.amazon.com/Kingdata-M-2-2242-64GB-High-Performance/dp/B08J2P4FR5/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1DQADOIVOQMFR&keywords=ssd+b-keyd&qid=1692475124&sprefix=ssd+b-key%2Caps%2C362&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I cannot find a B-Keyed one, one B+M as recommended above, but I wonder if anyone has experience with a drive other than the Optane?

muenchris

Since my internal drive of the 6100 is dead I am using a USB Boot Image that netgate gave me. It is possible that my drive does not initialize correctly with that USB Boot disk. The image I am using is pfSense-plus-memstick-serial-23.05.1-RELEASE-amd64.img.gz.

Maybe I have to format/partition the SSD manually before it can be used, but how would I go about this?

RobbieTT

@muenchris
Lots of drives work and those of us on this forum that use Optane is probably less than 5.

If you look at my photoshop pic you can see a non-Optane drive actually fitted from when I was testing different SSDs.

As long as the NVMe drive is keyed correctly it should work. The manufacturer recommends drives at 256 GB and below but I have personally tested 500 GB drives and they worked just fine.

I've tested WDs, Toshiba and Innodisk too, all with zero issues. My preference is for a DRAM-less drive, given the role of the device.

luckman212

@RobbieTT I'm coming into this thread late, but curious why you have a preference for DRAM-less? My understanding is DRAM-less SSDs have a lower lifespan, lower speeds, and lower performance (the only benefit being lower cost). Is this incorrect... ?

muenchris

@RobbieTT I just found a small but super important hint on a sub-redit: The Drive has to be PCI-E and NOT SATA. Both the drives I was trying are SATA drives.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Netgate/comments/qn1jdl/6100_storage_upgrade/

Look at the very last post.

stephenw10

@muenchris said in Netgate 6100 SSDs:

I tried this one: https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-512GB-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B07H21182F/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1DQADOIVOQMFR&keywords=ssd+b-keyd&qid=1692475071&sprefix=ssd+b-key%2Caps%2C362&sr=8-5

and this one: https://www.amazon.com/Kingdata-M-2-2242-64GB-High-Performance/dp/B08J2P4FR5/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1DQADOIVOQMFR&keywords=ssd+b-keyd&qid=1692475124&sprefix=ssd+b-key%2Caps%2C362&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Those are both SATA drives. You need to use an NVMe drive.

muenchris

@stephenw10 yes, I just saw this. too :(

RobbieTT

@luckman212
No, you have nailed most of the advantages of DRAM-equipped SSDs (albeit flash primarily drives the lifespan)

For a router/firewall none of these 'advantages' will actually come into play. However, DRAM can act as a write-hole should the power fail. Going DRAM-less removes that residual risk.

So yes, this is one of the few applications where no DRAM makes a lot of sense.

Incidentally, the 6100 Max comes with a DRAM-less SSD.

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RobbieTT

@muenchris said in Netgate 6100 SSDs:

@RobbieTT I just found a small but super important hint on a sub-redit: The Drive has to be PCI-E and NOT SATA. Both the drives I was trying are SATA drives.

Yep, as said, an NVMe SSD with the correct key is required.

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luckman212

@RobbieTT said in Netgate 6100 SSDs:

DRAM can act as a write-hole should the power fail. Going DRAM-less removes that residual risk...

Does that apply even with ZFS? I thought that was one of the reasons to go ZFS vs UFS. I spent about 45 minutes searching, reading and still came away scratching my head. Seems a bit of a maze with HMB, devices with the exact same model # but underneath having different specs depending on whatever chips were available at the time, etc.

no DRAM makes a lot of sense....the 6100 Max comes with a DRAM-less SSD

Ok, next question: what are some readily available NVMe B+M keyed 64-256GB DRAM-less SSDs? I think this KingSpec NE-128 might be one (that's what I've got stuck in my 6100) but definitely can't find many. The WD SN520 SDAPNUW and SK Hynix HFM128GDHTNG seem plausible too.

Bit of a rabbithole. Not sure any of this matters, any SSD is probably miles better than the eMMC, which seems destined to fail after a couple of years. And it's so easy to make backups or enable AutoConfigBackup...