Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?
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@andrzejls said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
@gisuck I am using free Home and Lab version and extremely happy with it. Whit this "new" development I have a question: If and when my system crashes and I could not revive it and then forced to re-install pfSense from scratch (using CE version). Will I be able to upgrade to "Home and Lab" pfSense+ using original activation key?.
No, you won't be able to. They will tell you go to CE. You know, the one they have no interest in updating to keep it current. Read the blog article.
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@Amodin Yeah... I read it but it was not so clear for the scenario I described. What it looks like is that they, Netgate, is not willing to go after third party vendors so they figured out that they can create new "revenue source" by charging home users exuberant/stupid amount of money. At $399 not to many home/lab users will go with it, myself included. Looking into OPNsense as an alternative.
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I would prefer to make this thread preferring solutions on how to bring the home+lab back rather than devolve into "Netgate lost my trust" "I'm going with the other guy" thread. Those types of threads have been made several times and it's beating a dead horse by now.
Further to my proposition on making home+lab a subscription service, but Netgate could put fine controls on the account management of home+lab. For example...
Home subscriptions: You can only have 1 active home license tied to an account (email address). There would be an option to rekey the license to a new device which would have a grace period where the old license would be active before being expired.
Lab subscriptions: Can remain free, but you must already have an active TAC Pro/TAC Enterprise subscription tied to the account as evidence that you would require a lab subscription. Or make this a discount license offering instead of free.
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@gisuck I do not think there is a way to "bring back" home+lab free subscription. IMHO Netgate already made their executive financial decision, home+lab users are not generating any revenue and Netgate need money. The only possibility, IMO, is to have Netgate to go back to $129/YR license.
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@andrzejls said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
IMHO Netgate already made their executive financial decision, home+lab users are not generating any revenue and Netgate need money.
I think this played into the change. Read the paragraph after the Proxmox screenshot.
https://www.servethehome.com/8-port-2-5gbe-intel-core-virtualization-and-firewall-appliance-mini-review/Imagine how you would feel to buy one of these to only later find out the software is not legal; would you be mad of the seller or Netgate?
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@gisuck said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
Further to my proposition on making home+lab a subscription service, but Netgate could put fine controls on the account management of home+lab. For example...
Home subscriptions: You can only have 1 active home license tied to an account (email address). There would be an option to rekey the license to a new device which would have a grace period where the old license would be active before being expired.
Lab subscriptions: Can remain free, but you must already have an active TAC Pro/TAC Enterprise subscription tied to the account as evidence that you would require a lab subscription. Or make this a discount license offering instead of free.
If home licensing was actually free like it is elsewhere, there's no need for a subscription, because all you are paying for is support. Whereas the entire point of having a community forum is self-help/problem-solving/troubleshooting. So, you are essentially paying for forum access, unless you want to go a commercial route. Then, you can buy a TAC if you wish, and it should be an option quite frankly. I don't need/want NetGate support, when I have it right here, and if it is messed up that badly, then I will reload it, fix it myself, wait for a patch or replace it altogether.
So pleading for a subscription model for open source firewalls doesn't really make much sense to me, if you don't want or need the support factor and they should have an avenue for those wishing to pay for support. That is essentially what you are getting for a subscription model.
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@Amodin I hear your argument, but this is where I think you are wrong.
Clearly Netgate says if you want the free version of pfSense is to use pfSense CE, which is the free/open source version of the firewall. pfSense+ is basically CE with some Netgate secret sauce stapled to it. Right now the secret sauce is a small amount, but that amount will continue to grow and evolve. This is the service that Netgate wants to get paid for.
At the time, Netgate was gracious enough to offer that services for home and lab users for free. Unfortunately, this free offering was abused against the Terms and Conditions that is in the pfSense+ licensing. And there would be significant financial losses to Netgate if they wanted to take actions against manufacturers/resellers selling free software on white boxes to the marketplace. If it was corporations abusing the home+lab license in a corporate environment, at least there's legal recourse where you can claim financial loss.
The hope (and I admit it is a hope) that making the home+lab license an annual pay for subscription instead would resolve the issue. Resellers wouldn't be purchasing a subscription on behalf of the customer to make this an offering, therefore negate this part of the abuse of the Terms and Service for this license.
I don't think the free offering is ever coming back, at least not anytime soon. The best we can hope for is to raise suggestions how home+lab can still be a value proposition to Netgate, without the exorbitant cost of a TAC Pro subscription that is too high for a home use firewall. Let's find a way to lessen the damage, if possible.
Edit: made a spelling mistake. I said "fine" instead of "find" in last sentence.
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@gisuck said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
@Amodin I hear your argument, but this is where I think you are wrong.
Clearly Netgate says if you want the free version of pfSense is to use pfSense CE, which is the free/open source version of the firewall. pfSense+ is basically CE with some Netgate secret sauce stapled to it. Right now the secret sauce is a small amount, but that amount will continue to grow and evolve. This is the service that Netgate wants to get paid for.
This is not what TAC is - TAC is purely support for the product, not for paying for 'features'. CE is now just an evaluation product (again, read the blog) for a home lab or project evaluation, but yes, free to use. It's been 're-classified' as an evaluation product, and there is no support for it as of the end of 2022. If it ever receives updates, that will be a literal blassing. Otherwise, it's for testing now. Again, read about it on the blog.
At the time, Netgate was gracious enough to offer that services for home and lab users for free. Unfortunately, this free offering was abused against the Terms and Conditions that is in the pfSense+ licensing. And there would be significant financial losses to Netgate if they wanted to take actions against manufacturers/resellers selling free software on white boxes to the marketplace. If it was corporations abusing the home+lab license in a corporate environment, at least there's legal recourse where you can claim financial loss.
This is very much their fault for lack of license management. The best course of action for them would be to revoke all tokens, and begin a transitioned, verifiable account process. This will take time, but it can be done. They aren't going to lose any more than what they already have in terms of revenue. Damage has been done, so they should suck it up and work the problem, don't make the home users suffer because of their shortcomings.
The hope (and I admit it is a hope) that making the home+lab license an annual pay for subscription instead would resolve the issue. Resellers wouldn't be purchasing a subscription on behalf of the customer to make this an offering, therefore negate this part of the abuse of the Terms and Service for this license.
Again, passing the blame to the end-user is not an acceptable form. We have all just been punished because of the third-party resellers. There are other options.
I don't think the free offering is ever coming back, at least not anytime soon. The best we can hope for is to raise suggestions how home+lab can still be a value proposition to Netgate, without the exorbitant cost of a TAC Pro subscription that is too high for a home use firewall. Let's find a way to lessen the damage, if possible.
Edit: made a spelling mistake. I said "fine" instead of "find" in last sentence.
That's totally up to NetGate of course. The best course of action is to discover other alternatives to replace this fallacy.
Sophos allows home use of their commercial product because they have a license management system in place to distinguish the difference.
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@gisuck said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
I don't think the free offering is ever coming back, at least not anytime soon. The best we can hope for is to raise suggestions how home+lab can still be a value proposition to Netgate, without the exorbitant cost of a TAC Pro subscription that is too high for a home use firewall. Let's find a way to lessen the damage, if possible.
It's probably safe to say that most home/lab firewall enthusiasts were the ones who registered for the plus version and Netgate had their email addresses as registered. Had Netgate communicated just to the group via group email, no one would be caught by surprise and the reaction. I am for lessening the damage and everything in life is negotiable. If Proxmox's home user subscription cost $105...that's a similar open source model for Netgate to emulate and hopefully could implement.
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@NollipfSense said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
If Proxmox's home user subscription cost $105...that's a similar open source model for Netgate to emulate and hopefully could implement.
Difference there is it's not mandatory to subscribe to use it, and you lose nothing - no functionality, no update, nothing. Your update repository is different, but it's updated just like the rest of the project. It's really more of a donation avenue, and no pressure if you don't.
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@Amodin said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
@NollipfSense said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
If Proxmox's home user subscription cost $105...that's a similar open source model for Netgate to emulate and hopefully could implement.
Difference there is it's not mandatory to subscribe to use it, and you lose nothing - no functionality, no update, nothing. Your update repository is different, but it's updated just like the rest of the project. It's really more of a donation avenue, and no pressure if you don't.
Yes, I agree, and that's a model it could emulate without the pressure nonsense...
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@SteveITS Yep. Someone already tagged me on this post and I just bought my license now. Waiting on fulfillment then then I don't have to worry for a year.
I'm happy Netgate went down this path.
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@gisuck said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
@SteveITS Yep. Someone already tagged me on this post and I just bought my license now. Waiting on fulfillment then then I don't have to worry for a year.
I'm happy Netgate went down this path.
I hope you applied the 23% discount ;)
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So... How about like... a one-time cost? This seems to be OK if you buy their hardware, but not for our own hardware.
Literally the ONLY times I've had to reach out to TAC was due to the FUBAR-ing of their own "licensing" after switching to Plus. I'm all for Netgate getting their piece of the pie, but why can't I just pay once... And I KNOW that I can do that if I buy their hardware, but I already have my own hardware. I run Xeon-based hardware in my homelab for experimentation purposes with a TON of interfaces, and none of their hardware (for a reasonable cost) supports this configuration.
I don't want the support, I just want continued access to the software. I don't mind paying for the support SHOULD I need it, but, I've been running pfSense now for well over 15 years, and I've NEVER needed the support for my homelab.
It's disingenuous for me to have to pay "insurance" for something I never intend to use. I'd much rather pay ONCE, and then be done with it.
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@jsylvia007 why do you "need" plus - what is in plus that drives you there.. I have used pfsense pretty much since it came out - only reason I am on + is I have a netgate appliance. And when it dies at some point, I will more than likely just get another appliance..
But if I was running my own hardware or as VM (as I did for many years) I would just use the CE..
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@johnpoz - I ran the 2.6 train of CE forever. Only recently switched when it was apparent that there were critical updates that only Plus was getting (in a timely manner).
Except for the update angle, I believe originally ZFS was only for Plus, and now it seems that ZFS is available for CE, but Boot Environments aren't. That's a really nice feature to have in a homelab. So except for reliable updates, and boot environments, not much.
I did see mention somewhere that there were enhancements in the network stack that were only coming to Plus, so, those would be (are) nice to have I assume (but honestly don't know if I am/am not taking advantage of them).
And honestly, especially with botched notifications like this, my confidence that CE will continue to be supported and updated is severely lacking. This stunt didn't help ANYONE's confidence in Netgate.
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@jsylvia007 said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
but Boot Environments aren't
Ah - yeah that is a big feature, the other that comes to mind is mac filtering - I believe that is only +.. I personally don't have a need/want for the mac filtering but could see that being big reason for going wanting +
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@johnpoz - Yea... No need for MAC filtering.
And to be honest, I just pulled the trigger on 2yrs of TAC-Lite for $200 (use code TACLITE at checkout for 23% off), it is what it is, I suppose. Doesn't make me any happier about the extortion money at all.
I'd have gladly given $200 for a one-time cost, but I can definitely say that now, I will be looking at what else is out there when 2 years is up and it's time to renew my "support" contract (which I have no actual intent on using).
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@jsylvia007 said in Would Netgate reconsider reinstating home+lab license but as a subscription model?:
and it's time to renew my "support" contract (which I have no actual intent on using).
the support Netgate are providing is timely updates which I suspect you may use and appreciate.
