Dual Intel LAN NUC!
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So what did you choose for Atheros radio. I have a bunch and finally found a good half card.
Dell Alienware AR5BHB112.
Only Atheros 450M half card i could find.
I bought the DC3217IYE to build a mifi hotspot. -
I like that the Jetway uses wide range of input voltages. From 9V-24V. To me that is very versatile. I am guessing the intel NUC is 19V only?~??
I will fire up adjustable power supply and test when it arrives. I am really hoping it works at 12V as i would like to incorporate a PicoUPS into my MIFI so i can carry it from the car to an outlet with a battery pack I want to build it with 12V-12AH SLA batteries and an plastic enclosure..I'm thinking lunchbox design with battery on bottom and the computer on hinged lid with a handle outside.. -
The 8.5W with pfsense 2.1.5 on the jetway HBJC311U93W-2930-B were without any additional power optimzations done. Just the default pfsense settings. I only did setup the LAN ports. But considering the old pfsense version and nor could I find any other data available online, I tried other systems incl. pfSense 2.2 (amd64-20141108-0611).
Now let's summarize the idle power findings:
pfsense 2.1.5 no tweakings: 8.5W pfsense 2.2 no tweakings: 10.0W pfsense 2.2 PowerD enabled: 9.7W ipfire 2.15 no tweakings: 8.8W ipfire 2.15 (powertop savings): 7.3WAll tests were made with HDMI on and usb keyboard connected. Default A01 BIOS settings.
Without HDMI/usb devices connected the above values are only further reduced by 0.2-0.3W.I am new to FreeBSD (do have Linux experience), but I really wonder what those high pfsense 2.2 values are causing. The CPU is rather idle and thus there is no process causing this. Any help/recommendation would be great as good non-obsolete info on powerd on FreeBSD seems hard to find. On Linux enabling the powersaving of usb/PCI/sata/audio as recommded by powertop reduced the consumption by 1.5W and with pfsense 2.2 there needs to be done more to become competitive.
stephenw10: power measurements were made with a small old power meter EKM 265 from ELV. The low power measurements in the past were pretty
compareble to figures published based on a professoinal LMG 95 device from ZES. So they are unlikely completly off ;-) I also did some measurents using a Fritz!Dect 200 wich provides 0.15W higher values on the jetway and allows displaying the power usage over time.Phishfry: I bought a noname Atheros 9280 card. I avoided the newer cards for now, as I allready would be lucky to get this one working reliable. I had my share of driver problems with atheros in the past on dd-wrt and OpenWRT devices. Never worked 100% reliable.
And at last some openssl benchmarks results. During those tests the power usage increased by 2-3 watt. Sorry I had no tools for a quick max test. But based the Intel NUC measurements published, I guess with CPU and GPU maxed out you can get 16-17W - very unlikely values in routing practice wich should stay <10W if pfSense 2.2 power usage is optimized.
pfsense 2.2: OpenSSL 1.0.1i-freebsd 6 Aug 2014 built on: date not available options:bn(64,64) rc4(16x,int) des(idx,cisc,16,int) aes(partial) idea(int) blowfish(idx) compiler: cc The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed. type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes md5 14908.20k 58849.61k 155058.26k 265082.06k 334230.87k sha1 17859.42k 55769.09k 126660.18k 186410.67k 216241.49k des cbc 36870.12k 39487.79k 40424.19k 40656.21k 40716.97k des ede3 14402.27k 14809.69k 14941.95k 14975.32k 14944.25k aes-128 cbc 37023.75k 41897.60k 43502.68k 109868.71k 111091.71k aes-192 cbc 31610.94k 34957.65k 36090.50k 93038.25k 93937.66k aes-256 cbc 27236.69k 29907.31k 30949.97k 80860.47k 81214.77k sha256 15787.31k 35099.65k 59627.26k 72193.37k 76961.11k sha512 12212.90k 48712.92k 75503.70k 105785.00k 120015.53k sign verify sign/s verify/s rsa 2048 bits 0.005758s 0.000221s 173.7 4533.4 sign verify sign/s verify/s dsa 2048 bits 0.001743s 0.002090s 573.6 478.4ipfire 2.15: OpenSSL 1.0.1j 15 Oct 2014 built on: Thu Oct 16 11:14:49 GMT 2014 options:bn(64,32) md2(int) rc4(idx,int) des(ptr,risc1,16,long) aes(partial) blowfish(idx) compiler: gcc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DZLIB_SHARED -DZLIB -DOPENSSL_THREADS -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -DSSL_FORBID_ENULL -DHAVE_CRYPTODEV -DUSE_CRYPTODEV_DIGEST -DL_ENDIAN -DTERMIO -Wall -O2 -pipe -Wall -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fPIC -fstack-protector-all --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -march=i586 -mtune=generic -fomit-frame-pointer -DPURIFY The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed. type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes md5 11160.98k 39212.15k 111467.05k 208104.08k 279203.13k sha1 8932.52k 25254.60k 52538.79k 72554.47k 81828.34k des cbc 17631.95k 18286.85k 18464.98k 18526.98k 18565.72k des ede3 6923.09k 7041.20k 7061.36k 7067.37k 7086.37k aes-128 cbc 42861.52k 46583.46k 47833.87k 48221.22k 48377.84k aes-192 cbc 37666.14k 40351.69k 41397.66k 41620.11k 41756.29k aes-256 cbc 33229.59k 35514.66k 36174.95k 36391.55k 36339.38k sha256 8464.54k 20115.75k 36104.36k 45101.31k 48788.85k sha512 2480.39k 9917.46k 14650.50k 20254.65k 22848.81k sign verify sign/s verify/s rsa 2048 bits 0.049082s 0.001477s 20.4 676.9 sign verify sign/s verify/s dsa 2048 bits 0.013782s 0.016444s 72.6 60.8 -
The only good way to measure power draw is with a amp meter… On the cord that plugs into the wall or battery power.
But I'm sure its quite low.
I'd like to have one of the new atom 8 core boards but I'd run alot more than just pfsense on it.
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My first thought is that the much newer drivers in 2.2 (built on FreeBSD 10.1) is enabling some hardware that 2.1.5 doesn't. Maybe the ACPI stuff is working significantly differently.
It's a little old now but this is pretty much the definitive document in saving power in FreeBSD:
https://wiki.freebsd.org/TuningPowerConsumptionSteve
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kejianshi: It's a True RMS based measurement at the power plug at the wall. So I do not know what is wrong with that other than the device not being as accurate as the noted LMG 95.
stephenw10: I already run into the site you noted. But as said, I am new to FreeBSD and thus the note like "hint.ahcich.X.pm_level" is something I do not easily understand (like how to determine the X.Y devices on FreeBSD?). And shouldn't a PowerD configuration handle these things? So there are lot's of time consuming searching coming up to get answers.
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There is nothing wrong with it. Thats the way to measure it.
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I have done some testing on pfsense 2.2 and I think the cause for the higher power usage is that the CPU is not switching to >C1 states on the jetway NUC. I already tried all sorts of things: disabling throttle+p4tcc, trying to set hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest="C3" and various P-State settings in the BIOS, but after booting hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest remains on C1 and no change to dev.cpu.0.cx_usage. Strangely dev.cpu.0.cx_supported does list C2/C3. No obvious problem reported in dmesg either.
Being a FreeBSD/pfsense user for just some hours, I wonder if this is a limitation of FreeBSD on Bay Trail-M? A BIOS problem? A missing setting in rc.conf?
Any idea what I could try next? C6 does work with ipfires Linux kernel 3.10 so it's not completly broken.
dev.cpu.0.freq_levels: 1826/2000 1660/1825 1494/1650 1328/1475 1162/1300 996/1125 871/984 830/950 726/831 664/775 581/678 498/600 435/525 373/450 311/375 249/300 186/225 124/150 62/75 dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/500 C3/3/5000 dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% 0.00% last 384us dev.cpu.0.coretemp.delta: 60 dev.cpu.0.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.0.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.0.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.0.temperature: 45.0C dev.cpu.1.%desc: ACPI CPU dev.cpu.1.%driver: cpu dev.cpu.1.%location: handle=\_PR_.CPU1 dev.cpu.1.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 dev.cpu.1.%parent: acpi0 dev.cpu.1.cx_supported: C1/1/1 dev.cpu.1.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.1.cx_usage: 100.00% last 88273us dev.cpu.1.coretemp.delta: 60 dev.cpu.1.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.1.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.1.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.1.temperature: 45.0C dev.cpu.2.%desc: ACPI CPU dev.cpu.2.%driver: cpu dev.cpu.2.%location: handle=\_PR_.CPU2 dev.cpu.2.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 dev.cpu.2.%parent: acpi0 dev.cpu.2.cx_supported: C1/1/1 dev.cpu.2.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.2.cx_usage: 100.00% last 79us dev.cpu.2.coretemp.delta: 56 dev.cpu.2.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.2.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.2.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.2.temperature: 49.0C dev.cpu.3.%desc: ACPI CPU dev.cpu.3.%driver: cpu dev.cpu.3.%location: handle=\_PR_.CPU3 dev.cpu.3.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 dev.cpu.3.%parent: acpi0 dev.cpu.3.cx_supported: C1/1/1 dev.cpu.3.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.3.cx_usage: 100.00% last 39747us dev.cpu.3.coretemp.delta: 56 dev.cpu.3.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.3.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.3.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.3.temperature: 49.0C hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest: C1 machdep.idle_mwait: 1 machdep.idle_available: spin, mwait, hlt, acpi machdep.idle: acpiOtherwise the only two other things that slightly helped reducing power usage were:
# avoid power for devices without driver 0.2W hw.pci.do_power_nodriver=3 # Powermanagement for SATA 0.5W hint.ahcich.0.pm_level=5 hint.ahcich.1.pm_level=5 -
Hmm, interesting.
I have played with power tuning on a couple of boxes, both much older than this. A Pentium-M based box responded very well to powerd controlling the P states, 15-20% idle power reduction. However a C2D box much less well, though I was hacking the BIOS to enable speedstep etc which confused things. ;) It appeared as though the lower power C states overwhelmed any gains made by using P states. On that box I had to enable the lower C states in the BIOS and then set the sysctl to allow a lower 'lowest' state. It's a while ago now but I'm pretty sure I set dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest rather than hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest.
powerd can control a couple of other things but mostly does only CPU power control.Steve
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Thanks stephenw10. I tried everything. Switched to FreeBSD 10.1RC4 and generated the data necessary to file bug report 194920 on bugs.freebsd.org . Maybe they will fix this for FreeBSD 11.
The additional 1.5W power this bug seems to cause on idle are less of a concern to me as the pfsense 2.2 system is down to 9W with the noted settings. A bigger concern is, that this might be the reason for powerd being stuck to 1826 MHz and not getting into turbo with the openssl speed test running on one thread? For now, the speed should be more than fine for my 50MBit VPN. But with 100MBit this might become a problem.
Forgot to talk about temperatures on the jetway NUC: CPU is usualy fine with <50C. It takes some time until the case warms up under heavy load. A bit concern gives me the mSATA ssd wich already has reached a max temp of 63C during the tests and it is not >40C in summer and heavy load for hours. Jetway seems to also have some suspicions for such extremes and did add a fan connector. But I guess a small heatsinks connecting SSD with the case will be totaly fine for me.
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My understanding is that the 'turbo' mode is not dependent on the OS, I don't think powerd is the issue here.
Also I imagine that cpu will easily manage 100Mbps of vpn traffic even at the lower frequency.Steve
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I couldn't find any info on the Bay Trail turbo mode, but all info I found from Intel seems to indicate that C1 state is considered active when it comes to turbo mode and thus there is no turbo with all cores in C0 or C1. If powerd doesn't display the turbo frequency even if activated by the cpu hardware, then I guess I have to find another way to test that.
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The cpu frequency should be shown in the sysctls. I forget exactly which one, I usually just grep for 'freq'.
Steve
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I made a copy/paste fault while testing FreeBSD 10.1RC4 and unlike pfsense C2 (not C3) states are reached. This at least gave me an idea what might be wrong with pfsense 2.2 beta.
My current guess is, that saving
performance_cx_lowest="C8"
economy_cx_lowest="C8"in /etc/rc.conf.local doesn't work on pfsense 2.2 beta unlike FreeBSD. The setting has no effect on sysctl output after reboot like on FreeBSD.
I couldn't find any actual data on the net, but where do I have to save this if not /etc/rc.conf.local on pfsense 2.2? Maybe I should create a new thread on this as this doesn't seem to be jetway NUC related.
I also run some benchmarks and the turbo mode seems to be working on pfsense/jetway NUC even if all cores are in C1. So all is well with the jetway NUC. Only the idle power usage is slightly higher compare to pfsense 2.1.5/ipfire…
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Custom sysctl settings can be added via the webgui in System: Advanced: System Tunables: that way they are saved in the config file and carried across an upgrade.
However these are the equivalent of using /etc/sysctl.conf in FreeBSD. Hmm, not sure about rc.conf settings. :-\ You're correct that these files are not used in pfSense as they are in FreeBSD, they are generated by the pfSense scripts using info in the config file.Steve
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Hi there,
Im new to the forum and PFSense, I was searching for the forum for the
Jetway NU93-2930 motherboard
I didnt get any hits but searching for the CPU I found this thread. Rather than start a new thread thats basically the same
I tacked on (Hope you dont mind)The board seems ideal, tiny, dual intel gigabit ,variable power requirements and CHEAP!
I have just yesterday upgraded to 74/19 fibre and Im thinking firewall/virus protection and VPN
Does the CPU in this little board of tricks have enough left for future tinkering?
I use Bittorrent alot and intend to host a game server next year.EDIT: Im in the UK
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Its max ram is 4GB - maybe not an issue but packet sniffing combined with packet filtering may take this to the top of the memory stack.
"Shared mPCI-e slot" could be interesting for additional Ethernet
power savings are huge with this "NUC" - this is put into a full box solution with JBC311U93E-2930-B priced at $220 barebones (CPU, power, wifi /BT included.) Will have to boot off something other than a 2.5" sata drive. No room in box or SATA header for 2.5" media.
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Rexki, the Jetway is listed with 4GB max, but for instance on http://www.mini-itx.com/store/~JBC311W you do get 8GB DDR3 lp modules for it. Seeing similar offers for other N29x0 systems with single memory slots, I assume the CPU is capable of addressing 8GB with certain 8GB modules.
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In hawaii I was able to run all my lights in my small apartment and only used a 100W panel.
Less light in Maryland, so I use 3.
You can size your battery, charger, inverter etc based stricly on the intended load.
You can estimate solar panel need to be around 200w to keep the battery charged.
You can add another panel if its not charging well.
Its hard to estimate your available sunlight not being there. Not knowing your available orientation to the sun. Average shading. ETC.
Knowing what you know about seasonal solar variation there, build and test it in the dead of winter. Around Dec 21st – Winter Solstice
Yes - The computer runs 24/7. It barely bothers the batteries. They recharge to full shortly after the sun is up. Its drawing maybe 13w.
I think solar is a great way to power low watt items like modem, router, switch etc. If sized properly, its far more reliable than grid power.
Pretty much guaranteed to never surge or spike or brown out if its all DC directly its especially reliable.
So thats Maryland.
Where I am now, in Manila, there is 4x as much solar radiation and electricity is 2.5x higher than USA prices.
This is what we call a "no brainer". I will build something here big enough to power the house completely.
I lived in Hawaii for 7 years.
Did you only have one light in your apartment?
The issue in Maryland isn't lighting, it's climate control (HVAC).
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Nooooo - I had 1 light in the living room, one in the dinning room, 1 in the kitchen, 1 on stairs and 1 hall. All were compact florescent.
During the day it was sunny so lights usually off. The living room light was on from sun down til we slept, so maybe 4 or 5 hours.
The other lights were on when people were going up or down stairs at night and when cooking or eating or whatever.
It was always fairly bright in the house. I probably burned the lights alot more than most because it was free.
Now maryland is a different story. Less sun so each panel never puts out what its rated for.
Takes several panels to meet what 1 in a hawaii will do in a day.
Now I'm in Manila and my brother is using the solar bank and it just keeeeeeeppppppssss going. Its getting close to 20 years now I guess that thing has been working.
We have alot of sun here also. When I buy a house here I will only need about 2k watts of solar to power everything I use….
With the price of electricity here, the panels will pay for themselves in about 2 years.
BTW - When I was in Hawaii the houses in Ewa Beach used AC but the ones in Mililani didn't.
So, I guess you are on the leeward side or out towards Ewa? Or the big island?
