FYI: there's something cool coming from PC Engines



  • Some features:

    • AMD Embedded G series GX-412TC

    • AES-NI support

    • ECC memory

    • 3x Intel ethernet

    • USB 3

    see http://pcengines.ch/apu2b4.htm



  • Do you have permission from Pascal/PCengines to post this link in public forums?
    At the time of APU betas (was it 2 years ago, really?) I was explicitly asked not to spread it.



  • AMD Embedded G series GX-412TC
    AES-NI support
    ECC memory
    3x Intel ethernet
    USB 3

    Cool, nice to hear about that, I would say it is fine to get the hands on this product.
    4 Cores at 1GHz should be more sufficient as I see it right.

    Do you have permission from Pascal/PCengines to post this link in public forums?

    If the Link is up everybody is able to find it over Google!


  • Banned

    No ShitTek this time? Finally!!!  ;D



  • You mean ReallyNot NICs?  ;D



  • @BlueKobold:

    Do you have permission from Pascal/PCengines to post this link in public forums?

    If the Link is up everybody is able to find it over Google!

    No.
    First you don't know how the new device will be called so you can only guess what to look for and
    have you ever heard of robots.txt? You can tell the crawlers what to index and what not of a web site.



  • Well they have the apu2b2 on the price list and it's listed as beta test, but no apu2b4. Curious what the price on it will be.



  • Well they have the apu2b2 on the price list and it's listed as beta test,

    And this means beta only as i see it right.

    but no apu2b4. Curious what the price on it will be.

    The APU2b2 comes without ECC RAM but the APU2B4 does and now please
    read the release notes:

    Release notes
    BIOS is not feature complete yet, in particular -
    • No boot from SD card.
    ECC not working yet.
    • Boot order selection not working yet.
    • iPXE module not included yet.



  • That SOC includes a "Platform Security Processor", which, as far as I can tell, is an ARM core implementing TrustZone, but for the amd64 platform. If those features are accessible, it would be very cool.



  • Anyone know if this platform can support DPDK?



  • Interesting they have AES-NI instructions on AMD…



  • Anyone know if this platform can support DPDK?

    Until now I was only seeing or hearing this (DPDK) named together with the Intel
    QuickAssist Technology could it might be the same or something that is based on the other perhaps?

    Data Plane Development Kit (DPDK) is perhaps something that give you the capability to
    write your own code for the Intel QuickAssist Technology. Here is what I found about that.
    Intel Quick Assist Technology (DPDK)

    Interesting they have AES-NI instructions on AMD…

    I think this is something like the MMX,SSE, and so on registers that can be inserted also by others
    if they paying license fees to the other part who was doing the research, but good for us as customers
    that we can until now also buying AMD CPUs that comes with this feature or function inside, or am I wrong
    with this?



  • I'm pretty sure DPDK is not tied to QuickAssist (and that the document you link to is just an example of how the two can be used together).


  • Netgate

    DPDK is not tied to quickassist.

    But a 1GHz part isn't going to be that fast, either.



  • I am left wondering why they chose to keep the same 6" x 6" form factor of the old board, instead of Nano-ITX or Mini-ITX.



  • @jwt:

    DPDK is not tied to quickassist.

    But a 1GHz part isn't going to be that fast, either.

    Thanks for enlighten us in this case. but why then some board vendors do promotion likes this for their boards?
    Supports Intel DPDK enabling software

    Because if this would not be tend to AES-NI or QuickAssist, what is the goal for this DPDK option?


  • Netgate

    @Phishfry:

    I am left wondering why they chose to keep the same 6" x 6" form factor of the old board, instead of Nano-ITX or Mini-ITX.

    To fit their cases, just like the Alix and APU have the same footprint and external connectors.

    The mistake is that they kept the same CPU down with a heat-spreader attached to the case design.  That's (still) gonna suck.

    BTW, I posted about this board back in January:
    https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=83075.msg474524#msg474524

    RCC-DFF is better.



  • @jwt:

    RCC-DFF is better.

    Perhaps, but the apu2b4 will cost about $100 less when you include the case and power supply. Assuming the current prices and CHF->USD exchange rate holds.

    How much of an issue is heat dissipation for the apu1d4? Does it affect performance or does it just "run hot"?


  • Netgate

    Perhaps, but the apu2b4 will cost about $100 less when you include the case and power supply. Assuming the current prices and CHF->USD exchange rate holds.

    There is only $50 delta in the boards.  Where is your other $50?  Show your work.  8)

    How much of an issue is heat dissipation for the apu1d4? Does it affect performance or does it just "run hot"?

    Eventually you will either have to either throttle the CPUs (from 1GHz to… lower), or things crash (because some other component gets too hot.)



  • @lfam:

    How much of an issue is heat dissipation for the apu1d4?

    APU cooling is so critical that only black and red chassis are advised.
    A silver chassis's thermal transportation capacity (heat coefficient) is too low.



  • @jwt:

    Perhaps, but the apu2b4 will cost about $100 less when you include the case and power supply. Assuming the current prices and CHF->USD exchange rate holds.

    There is only $50 delta in the boards.  Where is your other $50?  Show your work.  8)

    http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx
    Board, case, power supply: $275

    http://pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=48881
    apu2b4 board: CHF 143.13
    case1d2blku: CHF 10.04
    ac12vus: CHF 4.38
    According to google's currency exchange rates, that is $159.62.

    It's actually more than $100 difference, although you'll need to supply some storage for the apu2b4. However, it includes double the RAM, and ECC at that.



  • @jwt:

    The mistake is that they kept the same CPU down with a heat-spreader attached to the case design.  That's (still) gonna suck.

    It does… I have installed my APU upside down (so CPU up), pasted heatsinks on the casing above the CPU, drilled the case to allow airflow, ... and still the result is mediocre.
    When stressing the board, core temperature rises to 60-62°C (the unit is in a too-little-vented closet at home, ambient temp +-20°C)

    @lfam:

    How much of an issue is heat dissipation for the apu1d4? Does it affect performance or does it just "run hot"?

    It does however poses no issue for everyday usage and works fine here, just know what you buy.
    I guess it depends on the need and budget. (and how cheap you can get or SG's (US), or APU's (EU) –> no affiliation to either, I have installed a couple of SG's as well as apu's over the last year.)



  • @lfam:

    {CHF 157,55}  According to google's currency exchange rates, that is $159.62.
    It's actually more than $100 difference, although you'll need to supply some storage for the apu2b4. However, it includes double the RAM, and ECC at that.

    Nope and varying massively depending on where you live.

    a) You are only allowed to buy from pcengines directly if you either reside in Switzerland  or
    b) are an international dealer with a valid WEEE registration number (think: costs money to obtain)
    c) you left shipping costs completely out of the equation
    d) add import duties and taxes/VAT to the net amount, according to your local laws.
    e) add company taxes since you have to be a company to get a WEEE registration number

    Now do the math again.
    Might be that it's even cheaper to buy from negate than from pcengines, depending on where you live.



  • The street price in the US of a full APU4 kit with case, ps, and a card is about $250. The ADI 2440 runs $350. But, it has better nics, another ethernet port, faster CPU with quickassist, and you don't have to assemble it. If they keep the price the same, and you get better nics and cpu, it might be worth it in some deployments. I wouldn't buy one of the current APU boards over the 2440. The 2220 is comparable in price to the APU, if you can get by with two ethernet ports. I need at least three.



  • The street price in the US of a full APU4 kit with case, ps, and a card is about $250.

    Here in Germany it is vice versa!

    • APU1D4 ready assembled without storage and WiFi and pfSense ~202 € + sipping
    • APU1D4 ready assembled with mSATA but without WiFi and pfSense ~225 € + shipping
    • APU1D4 ready assembled with mSATA and WiFi but without pfSense ~259 € + shipping
    • APU1D4 ready assembled with mSATA and WiFi and pre-installed pfSense ~271 € + shipping
      Because the swiss is near us!

    pfSense SG-2440 ~645 € + shipping
    Because the USA is not near us or far away!

    The ADI 2440 runs $350. But, it has better nics, another ethernet port, faster CPU with quickassist, and you don't have to assemble it.

    The new APU2B4 comes also with Intel NICs, 4 CPU Cores, ECC RAM and AES-NI, so it might be more fair
    to compare the new ones to the SG units. But the SG-4860 and SG-8860 are awesome compared against
    the PC Engines if more horse power is needed. But for low budget or simple home usage the APU and APU2
    are more often bought here because the price pending and base.



  • @BlueKobold:

    pfSense SG-2440 ~645 € + shipping

    But the price includes 19% VAT (net: 541,00 EUR)
    And that's the price with pfSense subscription which you don't get for the stated APU1D4 prices.
    JFI.



  • @jahonix:

    a) You are only allowed to buy from pcengines directly if you either reside in Switzerland  or
    b) are an international dealer with a valid WEEE registration number (think: costs money to obtain)

    Oh, really? The USD orders page [1] doesn't mention that. And the order form doesn't seem to require that you declare the name of your company when ordering.

    [1]
    http://www.pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=4



  • But the price includes 19% VAT (net: 541,00 EUR)

    For sure they do, if I am buying a SG-2440 unit here in Germany as an end user and this means,
    a home or private user and not business user, I have to pay ~645 € for a SG-2440 unit.
    50 € on top by counting $1:1€ and I get in the USA nearly a SG-4860 for $699.
    So this was only talking about the shipping costs.

    @lfam:

    @jahonix:

    a) You are only allowed to buy from pcengines directly if you either reside in Switzerland  or
    b) are an international dealer with a valid WEEE registration number (think: costs money to obtain)

    Oh, really? The USD orders page [1] doesn't mention that. And the order form doesn't seem to require that you declare the name of your company when ordering.

    [1]
    http://www.pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=4

    Due to cumbersome recycling regulations in the EU we do not sell to end users in EU countries.
    Business users must enter their VAT ID, and register with recycling organizations in all countries they sell to.
    Switzerland is NOT a EU country !!! You will have to pay import VAT and possibly duty, as well as customs
    handling fees. This will be collected by customs, the postal service or courier company.
    DDU term = Delivered Duty / VAT Unpaid.

    Well as they stated on their website, they will only sale to business customers.


  • Netgate

    @lfam:

    @jwt:

    Perhaps, but the apu2b4 will cost about $100 less when you include the case and power supply. Assuming the current prices and CHF->USD exchange rate holds.

    There is only $50 delta in the boards.  Where is your other $50?  Show your work.  8)

    http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx
    Board, case, power supply: $275

    http://pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=48881
    apu2b4 board: CHF 143.13
    case1d2blku: CHF 10.04
    ac12vus: CHF 4.38
    According to google's currency exchange rates, that is $159.62.

    It's actually more than $100 difference, although you'll need to supply some storage for the apu2b4. However, it includes double the RAM, and ECC at that.

    Has an OS loaded, and is assembled.

    ECC does nothing for you at that density.  I don't understand why he's spent the money.


  • Netgate

    @BlueKobold:

    @jwt:

    DPDK is not tied to quickassist.

    But a 1GHz part isn't going to be that fast, either.

    Thanks for enlighten us in this case. but why then some board vendors do promotion likes this for their boards?
    Supports Intel DPDK enabling software

    Because if this would not be tend to AES-NI or QuickAssist, what is the goal for this DPDK option?

    They're saying "we have Intel NICs and a 64-bit Intel CPU."

    It's marketing.


  • Netgate

    @BlueKobold:

    pfSense SG-2440 ~645 € + shipping
    Because the USA is not near us or far away!
    […]
    The new APU2B4 comes also with Intel NICs, 4 CPU Cores, ECC RAM and AES-NI, so it might be more fair
    to compare the new ones to the SG units. But the SG-4860 and SG-8860 are awesome compared against
    the PC Engines if more horse power is needed. But for low budget or simple home usage the APU and APU2
    are more often bought here because the price pending and base.

    The SG-2440 includes pfSense support.  The APU/APU do not.  I'd like you to compare like to like.

    A RCC-VE 2440 is 400 EUR (ex VAT) https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/rcc-ve-2440/

    A SG-2220 is 329 EUR (ex VAT) https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/sg-2220/

    and just to be complete, a SG-2440 is 529 EUR ex VAT https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/sg-2440/

    The APU2B4 has a 1GHz clock, so single-core is going to suck compared to a 2440, and if you push it hard (say with netmap-fwd or dpdk, or worse, you spin all the cores hard) you're going to end up stopping the clock a lot to stay inside the thermal envelope of the CPU.

    yes, for simple home usage the APU/APU2 will get the job done.


  • Netgate

    @BlueKobold:

    But the price includes 19% VAT (net: 541,00 EUR)

    For sure they do, if I am buying a SG-2440 unit here in Germany as an end user and this means,
    a home or private user and not business user, I have to pay ~645 € for a SG-2440 unit.

    RCC-VE 2440 is 476,00 EUR with VAT https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/rcc-ve-2440/  (net: 400,00)

    SG-2440 is 629,51 EUR with VAT https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/sg-2440/  (net: 529,00)


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