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    FYI: there's something cool coming from PC Engines

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Hardware
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    • L
      lfam
      last edited by

      @jwt:

      Perhaps, but the apu2b4 will cost about $100 less when you include the case and power supply. Assuming the current prices and CHF->USD exchange rate holds.

      There is only $50 delta in the boards.  Where is your other $50?  Show your work.  8)

      http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx
      Board, case, power supply: $275

      http://pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=48881
      apu2b4 board: CHF 143.13
      case1d2blku: CHF 10.04
      ac12vus: CHF 4.38
      According to google's currency exchange rates, that is $159.62.

      It's actually more than $100 difference, although you'll need to supply some storage for the apu2b4. However, it includes double the RAM, and ECC at that.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • B
        bennyc
        last edited by

        @jwt:

        The mistake is that they kept the same CPU down with a heat-spreader attached to the case design.  That's (still) gonna suck.

        It does… I have installed my APU upside down (so CPU up), pasted heatsinks on the casing above the CPU, drilled the case to allow airflow, ... and still the result is mediocre.
        When stressing the board, core temperature rises to 60-62°C (the unit is in a too-little-vented closet at home, ambient temp +-20°C)

        @lfam:

        How much of an issue is heat dissipation for the apu1d4? Does it affect performance or does it just "run hot"?

        It does however poses no issue for everyday usage and works fine here, just know what you buy.
        I guess it depends on the need and budget. (and how cheap you can get or SG's (US), or APU's (EU) –> no affiliation to either, I have installed a couple of SG's as well as apu's over the last year.)

        4x XG-7100 (2xHA), 1x SG-4860, 1x SG-2100
        1x PC Engines APU2C4, 1x PC Engines APU1C4

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • jahonixJ
          jahonix
          last edited by

          @lfam:

          {CHF 157,55}  According to google's currency exchange rates, that is $159.62.
          It's actually more than $100 difference, although you'll need to supply some storage for the apu2b4. However, it includes double the RAM, and ECC at that.

          Nope and varying massively depending on where you live.

          a) You are only allowed to buy from pcengines directly if you either reside in Switzerland  or
          b) are an international dealer with a valid WEEE registration number (think: costs money to obtain)
          c) you left shipping costs completely out of the equation
          d) add import duties and taxes/VAT to the net amount, according to your local laws.
          e) add company taxes since you have to be a company to get a WEEE registration number

          Now do the math again.
          Might be that it's even cheaper to buy from negate than from pcengines, depending on where you live.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • dotdashD
            dotdash
            last edited by

            The street price in the US of a full APU4 kit with case, ps, and a card is about $250. The ADI 2440 runs $350. But, it has better nics, another ethernet port, faster CPU with quickassist, and you don't have to assemble it. If they keep the price the same, and you get better nics and cpu, it might be worth it in some deployments. I wouldn't buy one of the current APU boards over the 2440. The 2220 is comparable in price to the APU, if you can get by with two ethernet ports. I need at least three.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • ?
              Guest
              last edited by

              The street price in the US of a full APU4 kit with case, ps, and a card is about $250.

              Here in Germany it is vice versa!

              • APU1D4 ready assembled without storage and WiFi and pfSense ~202 € + sipping
              • APU1D4 ready assembled with mSATA but without WiFi and pfSense ~225 € + shipping
              • APU1D4 ready assembled with mSATA and WiFi but without pfSense ~259 € + shipping
              • APU1D4 ready assembled with mSATA and WiFi and pre-installed pfSense ~271 € + shipping
                Because the swiss is near us!

              pfSense SG-2440 ~645 € + shipping
              Because the USA is not near us or far away!

              The ADI 2440 runs $350. But, it has better nics, another ethernet port, faster CPU with quickassist, and you don't have to assemble it.

              The new APU2B4 comes also with Intel NICs, 4 CPU Cores, ECC RAM and AES-NI, so it might be more fair
              to compare the new ones to the SG units. But the SG-4860 and SG-8860 are awesome compared against
              the PC Engines if more horse power is needed. But for low budget or simple home usage the APU and APU2
              are more often bought here because the price pending and base.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • jahonixJ
                jahonix
                last edited by

                @BlueKobold:

                pfSense SG-2440 ~645 € + shipping

                But the price includes 19% VAT (net: 541,00 EUR)
                And that's the price with pfSense subscription which you don't get for the stated APU1D4 prices.
                JFI.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • L
                  lfam
                  last edited by

                  @jahonix:

                  a) You are only allowed to buy from pcengines directly if you either reside in Switzerland  or
                  b) are an international dealer with a valid WEEE registration number (think: costs money to obtain)

                  Oh, really? The USD orders page [1] doesn't mention that. And the order form doesn't seem to require that you declare the name of your company when ordering.

                  [1]
                  http://www.pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=4

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • ?
                    Guest
                    last edited by

                    But the price includes 19% VAT (net: 541,00 EUR)

                    For sure they do, if I am buying a SG-2440 unit here in Germany as an end user and this means,
                    a home or private user and not business user, I have to pay ~645 € for a SG-2440 unit.
                    50 € on top by counting $1:1€ and I get in the USA nearly a SG-4860 for $699.
                    So this was only talking about the shipping costs.

                    @lfam:

                    @jahonix:

                    a) You are only allowed to buy from pcengines directly if you either reside in Switzerland  or
                    b) are an international dealer with a valid WEEE registration number (think: costs money to obtain)

                    Oh, really? The USD orders page [1] doesn't mention that. And the order form doesn't seem to require that you declare the name of your company when ordering.

                    [1]
                    http://www.pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=4

                    Due to cumbersome recycling regulations in the EU we do not sell to end users in EU countries.
                    Business users must enter their VAT ID, and register with recycling organizations in all countries they sell to.
                    Switzerland is NOT a EU country !!! You will have to pay import VAT and possibly duty, as well as customs
                    handling fees. This will be collected by customs, the postal service or courier company.
                    DDU term = Delivered Duty / VAT Unpaid.

                    Well as they stated on their website, they will only sale to business customers.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • J
                      jwt Netgate
                      last edited by

                      @lfam:

                      @jwt:

                      Perhaps, but the apu2b4 will cost about $100 less when you include the case and power supply. Assuming the current prices and CHF->USD exchange rate holds.

                      There is only $50 delta in the boards.  Where is your other $50?  Show your work.  8)

                      http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx
                      Board, case, power supply: $275

                      http://pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=48881
                      apu2b4 board: CHF 143.13
                      case1d2blku: CHF 10.04
                      ac12vus: CHF 4.38
                      According to google's currency exchange rates, that is $159.62.

                      It's actually more than $100 difference, although you'll need to supply some storage for the apu2b4. However, it includes double the RAM, and ECC at that.

                      Has an OS loaded, and is assembled.

                      ECC does nothing for you at that density.  I don't understand why he's spent the money.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • J
                        jwt Netgate
                        last edited by

                        @BlueKobold:

                        @jwt:

                        DPDK is not tied to quickassist.

                        But a 1GHz part isn't going to be that fast, either.

                        Thanks for enlighten us in this case. but why then some board vendors do promotion likes this for their boards?
                        Supports Intel DPDK enabling software

                        Because if this would not be tend to AES-NI or QuickAssist, what is the goal for this DPDK option?

                        They're saying "we have Intel NICs and a 64-bit Intel CPU."

                        It's marketing.

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                        • J
                          jwt Netgate
                          last edited by

                          @BlueKobold:

                          pfSense SG-2440 ~645 € + shipping
                          Because the USA is not near us or far away!
                          […]
                          The new APU2B4 comes also with Intel NICs, 4 CPU Cores, ECC RAM and AES-NI, so it might be more fair
                          to compare the new ones to the SG units. But the SG-4860 and SG-8860 are awesome compared against
                          the PC Engines if more horse power is needed. But for low budget or simple home usage the APU and APU2
                          are more often bought here because the price pending and base.

                          The SG-2440 includes pfSense support.  The APU/APU do not.  I'd like you to compare like to like.

                          A RCC-VE 2440 is 400 EUR (ex VAT) https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/rcc-ve-2440/

                          A SG-2220 is 329 EUR (ex VAT) https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/sg-2220/

                          and just to be complete, a SG-2440 is 529 EUR ex VAT https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/sg-2440/

                          The APU2B4 has a 1GHz clock, so single-core is going to suck compared to a 2440, and if you push it hard (say with netmap-fwd or dpdk, or worse, you spin all the cores hard) you're going to end up stopping the clock a lot to stay inside the thermal envelope of the CPU.

                          yes, for simple home usage the APU/APU2 will get the job done.

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                          • J
                            jwt Netgate
                            last edited by

                            @BlueKobold:

                            But the price includes 19% VAT (net: 541,00 EUR)

                            For sure they do, if I am buying a SG-2440 unit here in Germany as an end user and this means,
                            a home or private user and not business user, I have to pay ~645 € for a SG-2440 unit.

                            RCC-VE 2440 is 476,00 EUR with VAT https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/rcc-ve-2440/  (net: 400,00)

                            SG-2440 is 629,51 EUR with VAT https://shop.voleatech.de/en/shop/sg-2440/  (net: 529,00)

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