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    NTP Issue

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General pfSense Questions
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    • A
      admacdo @stephenw10
      last edited by

      @stephenw10
      Might have helped to post this:

      09:22:49.170320 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0xb8, ttl 64, id 28353, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.1.123 > 172.16.1.2.123: [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d -> 0x8f85!] NTPv4, Client, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 2 (secondary reference), poll 6 (64s), precision -23
      Root Delay: 0.015640, Root dispersion: 0.006912, Reference-ID: 0x11fd4225
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801750.204506135 (2024-07-24T09:22:30Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801704.158000500 (2024-07-24T09:21:44Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801704.161610624 (2024-07-24T09:21:44Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801769.170296701 (2024-07-24T09:22:49Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: +0.003610124
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: +65.012296201
      09:22:49.170381 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 10031, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.2.123 > 172.16.1.1.123: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, Server, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 0 (1s), precision -18
      Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: PPS^@
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801769.000000000 (2024-07-24T09:22:49Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801769.170296701 (2024-07-24T09:22:49Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801769.167000500 (2024-07-24T09:22:49Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801769.167000500 (2024-07-24T09:22:49Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: -0.003296201
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: -0.003296201
      09:22:57.187023 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0xb8, ttl 64, id 45902, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.1.123 > 172.16.1.2.123: [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d -> 0x5082!] NTPv4, Client, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 2 (secondary reference), poll 6 (64s), precision -23
      Root Delay: 0.015640, Root dispersion: 0.007034, Reference-ID: 0x11fd4225
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801750.204506135 (2024-07-24T09:22:30Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801769.167000500 (2024-07-24T09:22:49Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801769.170386584 (2024-07-24T09:22:49Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801777.187008800 (2024-07-24T09:22:57Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: +0.003386084
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: +8.020008299
      09:22:57.187083 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 10032, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.2.123 > 172.16.1.1.123: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, Server, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 0 (1s), precision -18
      Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: PPS^@
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801777.000000000 (2024-07-24T09:22:57Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801777.187008800 (2024-07-24T09:22:57Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801777.183000500 (2024-07-24T09:22:57Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801777.183000500 (2024-07-24T09:22:57Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: -0.004008300
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: -0.004008300
      09:23:05.179910 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0xb8, ttl 64, id 43251, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.1.123 > 172.16.1.2.123: [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d -> 0x5129!] NTPv4, Client, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 2 (secondary reference), poll 6 (64s), precision -23
      Root Delay: 0.015640, Root dispersion: 0.007156, Reference-ID: 0x11fd4225
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801750.204506135 (2024-07-24T09:22:30Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801777.183000500 (2024-07-24T09:22:57Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801777.187088760 (2024-07-24T09:22:57Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801785.179879918 (2024-07-24T09:23:05Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: +0.004088260
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: +7.996879418
      09:23:05.179988 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 10033, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.2.123 > 172.16.1.1.123: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, Server, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 0 (1s), precision -18
      Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: PPS^@
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801785.000000000 (2024-07-24T09:23:05Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801785.179879918 (2024-07-24T09:23:05Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801785.176000500 (2024-07-24T09:23:05Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801785.176000500 (2024-07-24T09:23:05Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: -0.003879418
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: -0.003879418
      09:24:11.223769 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0xb8, ttl 64, id 17146, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.1.123 > 172.16.1.2.123: [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d -> 0x2cfc!] NTPv4, Client, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 2 (secondary reference), poll 6 (64s), precision -23
      Root Delay: 0.015640, Root dispersion: 0.008148, Reference-ID: 0x11fd4225
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801750.204506135 (2024-07-24T09:22:30Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801785.176000500 (2024-07-24T09:23:05Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801785.180030896 (2024-07-24T09:23:05Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801851.223755123 (2024-07-24T09:24:11Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: +0.004030396
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: +66.047754622
      09:24:11.223843 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 10034, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.2.123 > 172.16.1.1.123: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, Server, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 0 (1s), precision -18
      Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: PPS^@
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801851.000000000 (2024-07-24T09:24:11Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801851.223755123 (2024-07-24T09:24:11Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801851.220000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:11Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801851.220000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:11Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: -0.003754622
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: -0.003754622
      09:24:19.195033 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0xb8, ttl 64, id 50821, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.1.123 > 172.16.1.2.123: [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d -> 0xae46!] NTPv4, Client, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 2 (secondary reference), poll 6 (64s), precision -23
      Root Delay: 0.015640, Root dispersion: 0.008270, Reference-ID: 0x11fd4225
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801750.204506135 (2024-07-24T09:22:30Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801851.220000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:11Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801851.223882897 (2024-07-24T09:24:11Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801859.195007028 (2024-07-24T09:24:19Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: +0.003882397
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: +7.975006527
      09:24:19.195121 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 10035, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.2.123 > 172.16.1.1.123: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, Server, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 0 (1s), precision -18
      Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: PPS^@
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801859.000000000 (2024-07-24T09:24:19Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801859.195007028 (2024-07-24T09:24:19Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801859.192000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:19Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801859.192000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:19Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: -0.003006528
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: -0.003006528
      09:24:27.176376 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0xb8, ttl 64, id 48593, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.1.123 > 172.16.1.2.123: [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d -> 0x37e1!] NTPv4, Client, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 2 (secondary reference), poll 6 (64s), precision -23
      Root Delay: 0.015640, Root dispersion: 0.008392, Reference-ID: 0x11fd4225
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801750.204506135 (2024-07-24T09:22:30Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801859.192000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:19Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801859.195166604 (2024-07-24T09:24:19Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801867.176368362 (2024-07-24T09:24:27Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: +0.003166103
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: +7.984367861
      09:24:27.176494 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 10036, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.2.123 > 172.16.1.1.123: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, Server, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 0 (1s), precision -18
      Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: PPS^@
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801867.000000000 (2024-07-24T09:24:27Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801867.176368362 (2024-07-24T09:24:27Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801867.173000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:27Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801867.173000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:27Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: -0.003367861
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: -0.003367861
      09:25:34.172849 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0xb8, ttl 64, id 10788, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.1.123 > 172.16.1.2.123: [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d -> 0x34ff!] NTPv4, Client, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 2 (secondary reference), poll 6 (64s), precision -23
      Root Delay: 0.015640, Root dispersion: 0.009384, Reference-ID: 0x11fd4225
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801750.204506135 (2024-07-24T09:22:30Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801867.173000500 (2024-07-24T09:24:27Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801867.176498219 (2024-07-24T09:24:27Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801934.172838781 (2024-07-24T09:25:34Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: +0.003497719
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: +66.999838281
      09:25:34.172908 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff, ethertype ARP (0x0806), length 60: Ethernet (len 6), IPv4 (len 4), Request who-has 172.16.1.1 tell 172.16.1.2, length 46
      09:25:34.172917 60:be:b4:07:c6:17 > a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb, ethertype ARP (0x0806), length 42: Ethernet (len 6), IPv4 (len 4), Reply 172.16.1.1 is-at 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, length 28
      09:25:34.172956 a6:4c:5e:80:2e:fb > 60:be:b4:07:c6:17, ethertype IPv4 (0x0800), length 90: (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 10037, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
      172.16.1.2.123 > 172.16.1.1.123: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, Server, length 48
      Leap indicator: (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 0 (1s), precision -18
      Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: PPS^@
      Reference Timestamp: 3930801934.000000000 (2024-07-24T09:25:34Z)
      Originator Timestamp: 3930801934.172838781 (2024-07-24T09:25:34Z)
      Receive Timestamp: 3930801934.169000500 (2024-07-24T09:25:34Z)
      Transmit Timestamp: 3930801934.169000500 (2024-07-24T09:25:34Z)
      Originator - Receive Timestamp: -0.003838281
      Originator - Transmit Timestamp: -0.003838281

      johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • johnpozJ
        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @admacdo
        last edited by

        @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

        [bad udp cksum 0x5a6d

        odd that all the traffic you send to 1.2 shows bad checksum??

        But traffic from 1.2 to 1.1 shows ok?

        Do you have your checksum offload on?

        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
        SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

        A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • A
          admacdo @johnpoz
          last edited by

          @johnpoz
          No checksum offload tick.

          stephenw10S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • stephenw10S
            stephenw10 Netgate Administrator @admacdo
            last edited by

            @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

            No checksum offload tick.

            'No tick' could imply it's not disabled and therefore is offloaded.

            A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • A
              admacdo @stephenw10
              last edited by

              @stephenw10
              Yeah, bad explanation on my part. It's not disabled.
              I even cycled it on and off a few times with a reboot to see if it made any difference.

              No change.

              I'm a little disappointed.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • stephenw10S
                stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                last edited by

                If it's actually disabled you can see that directly using ifconfig at the CLI, for example:

                [24.08-DEVELOPMENT][admin@4200.stevew.lan]/root: ifconfig -m igc1
                igc1: flags=1008843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST,LOWER_UP> metric 0 mtu 1500
                	options=48020b8<VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING,JUMBO_MTU,VLAN_HWCSUM,WOL_MAGIC,HWSTATS,MEXTPG>
                	capabilities=4f43fbb<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING,JUMBO_MTU,VLAN_HWCSUM,TSO4,TSO6,LRO,WOL_UCAST,WOL_MCAST,WOL_MAGIC,VLAN_HWTSO,NETMAP,RXCSUM_IPV6,TXCSUM_IPV6,HWSTATS,MEXTPG>
                

                Where tx and rx checksums are shown in capabilities but not options. Though you see vlan checkums are still enabled.

                A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • A
                  admacdo @stephenw10
                  last edited by

                  @stephenw10

                  Well, it looks like it's not disabled, as all previous indications have said that it isn't.

                  igc2: flags=1008943<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,PROMISC,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST,LOWER_UP> metric 0 mtu 1500
                  description: LAN
                  options=4e020bb<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING,JUMBO_MTU,VLAN_HWCSUM,WOL_MAGIC,RXCSUM_IPV6,TXCSUM_IPV6,HWSTATS,MEXTPG>
                  capabilities=4f43fbb<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING,JUMBO_MTU,VLAN_HWCSUM,TSO4,TSO6,LRO,WOL_UCAST,WOL_MCAST,WOL_MAGIC,VLAN_HWTSO,NETMAP,RXCSUM_IPV6,TXCSUM_IPV6,HWSTATS,MEXTPG>
                  ether 60:be:b4:07:c6:16
                  inet 192.168.25.254 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.25.255
                  inet6 fe80::62be:b4ff:fe07:c616%igc2 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
                  media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT <full-duplex>)
                  status: active
                  supported media:
                  media autoselect
                  media 2500Base-T
                  media 1000baseT
                  media 1000baseT mediaopt full-duplex
                  media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex
                  media 100baseTX
                  media 10baseT/UTP mediaopt full-duplex
                  media 10baseT/UTP
                  nd6 options=21<PERFORMNUD,AUTO_LINKLOCAL>

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • stephenw10S
                    stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                    last edited by

                    Ok then the checksum failure in a pcap is expected. That isn't really a problem normally though.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • A
                      admacdo
                      last edited by

                      Well, just for more fun, a couple of weeks ago, I bought an SG-1100 as I needed a backup firewall in case mine self toasts somehow.
                      I reset it to defaults, stuck a rough config on and as a quick test, pointed it at both my local NTP stratum one time servers and also time.apple.com.

                      The apple timeserver responded instantly and the 1100 totally ignored the two locals.

                      I updated it to the latest Pfsense Plus and the same thing happened.

                      Today I was given a VK-T40E2 by a colleague who'd upgraded his home firewall setup.
                      I reset it to defaults and configured it, then pointed it at the same three timeservers as the 1100.
                      It instantly latched onto one of the locals while still seeing the other two.
                      It was still on the original version, so I updated that to the latest legacy 2.3.5 (I think). Going further will require a complete reinstall and I don't have a null modem cable to hand these days.
                      It still saw all the local and internet NTP servers that I cared to list.

                      So of course, I can't wait to get it to 2.4 so that it can't see the two local stratum ones...
                      At least that's what I'm betting will happen.

                      GertjanG 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • GertjanG
                        Gertjan @admacdo
                        last edited by Gertjan

                        @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

                        The apple timeserver responded instantly and the 1100 totally ignored the two locals.

                        It will put the other two as a 'hot spare'.
                        Check for yourself (example) :

                        a03b7889-a344-461d-80ea-fe3154d6cdeb-image.png

                        Btw : look at that : NTP went IPv6 only also ...

                        @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

                        I updated it to the latest Pfsense Plus

                        24.11.

                        @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

                        the same three timeservers

                        Normally, you shouldn't use 3 'off something' (DNS, NTP, whatever) as it created problems.
                        See it like this : you have to buy a new car, but you want to think about it, so your interrogations @home and discuss it with your wive.
                        What would happen if you had 3 wives ?
                        I can tell you what will happen. You won't drive any car any soon (you couldn't afford one anyway ^^)

                        So :
                        NTP : pick a 'pool'.
                        DNS : stick to 'root servers' (a pool actually).
                        etc etc.

                        @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

                        latest legacy 2.3.5

                        An APU ? 32 bits ??

                        @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

                        it to 2.4 so

                        2.4 ?

                        No "help me" PM's please. Use the forum, the community will thank you.
                        Edit : and where are the logs ??

                        A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • A
                          admacdo @Gertjan
                          last edited by

                          @Gertjan

                          1. Go and read the entire thread, start to finish. Pay particular attention to what I have already posted.
                          2. Go and read how NTP actually works.
                            Not SNTP.
                            The REAL complete NTP and learn EXACTLY WHY you put in multiple NTP sources.
                            Then maybe go and read why Industry Best Practice requires four.
                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • A
                            admacdo @ARAMP1
                            last edited by

                            @ARAMP1

                            And sadly, the issue still exists with 2.8

                            There's just no way that I can find to get pfsense back to taking notice of any NTP servers on the LAN.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • stephenw10S
                              stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                              last edited by

                              Ok reading back a few things are unclear here.

                              The configures internal ntp server(s) just show as unreaching in pfSense?

                              A pcap on the ntp server shows requests from pfSense and responses from the server?

                              But the state table on the firewall only shows one way traffic?

                              Does a pcap on pfSense show the replies from server?

                              Does it do the same thing if there are no other servers configured?

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • stephenw10S
                                stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                                last edited by stephenw10

                                It still works fine for me here from 2.8 and 25.03:

                                [2.8.0-RELEASE][admin@cedev-2.stevew.lan]/root: ntpq -np
                                     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                                ==============================================================================
                                *172.21.16.1     .GPS.            1 u   43   64  377    0.378   -0.347   2.602
                                

                                Now the jitter is crap on that server because it's a USB connected GPS. My real GPS device failed a while back 😞

                                So in a list it doesn't get selected as the active peer. But it still polls it just fine:

                                [2.8.0-RELEASE][admin@t70.stevew.lan]/root: ntpq -np
                                     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                                ==============================================================================
                                -172.21.16.1     .GPS.            1 u   43   64  377    0.404   -2.999   0.919
                                 2.pfsense.pool. .POOL.          16 p    -   64    0    0.000   +0.000   0.000
                                +217.154.60.177  139.143.5.31     2 u   26   64  377    8.644   +1.450   0.256
                                *85.199.214.99   .GPS.            1 u   22   64  377    6.458   +1.507   0.204
                                +185.83.169.27   .GPS.            1 u   22   64  377   10.610   +1.119   0.366
                                

                                That also includes whether or not the server is WAN or LAN side, as long as the ACLs allow it.

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                                  admacdo @stephenw10
                                  last edited by

                                  @stephenw10

                                  A brief recap of the situation.
                                  I run two LAN based GPS ntp servers.
                                  They used to run fine before I updated to 2.7.
                                  They would instantly get selected as peer and next best within a very short time.
                                  Other ntp servers on the internet were also selected so as to show internet conditions within the state, country and various parts of the world.
                                  As soon as the 2.7 update happened, the LAN based NTP servers became unreachable.
                                  There have been at least three other people in the world who had this exact same issue.

                                  The NTP servers each remain available to each of the 72 devices currently on the home network.
                                  My particular box does not like USB GPS devices and the serial port is an RJ45 port, which never responded to any combination of mapping the PPS, so that option is out of the window.

                                  So with your real GPS device failed, how can you be sure that your install still works with a LAN based NTP server?

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                                  • stephenw10S
                                    stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                                    last edited by

                                    That is an LAN based ntp server I've shown above. It's a crap ntp server but it's still local and is reachable just fine.

                                    So something about your servers is different, hence my list of questions. When I read back through the thread at one point you said the state table showed one way traffic. That implies some network issue rather than anything ntp specific.

                                    I'll try and repair my true GPS module. That used pps over a real serial port. Unfortunately the antenna connector was pulled off the board so it requires some delicate surgery!

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                                      admacdo @stephenw10
                                      last edited by

                                      @stephenw10
                                      Well, I'm amazed that you have a LAN based NTP server turning up as being available.

                                      I can see that my pfsense box is contacting both my ntp servers because they report the last 100 hosts.
                                      I have opt 2 configured with zero firewall rules and it goes to the second port of the main NTP server. That port serves only port 123, so it's a handy test.
                                      That port of the NTP server is configured to broadcast NTP every thirty seconds AND I can see that traffic turn up as measured by the firewall, every 30 seconds. I ditched the broadcast and seeing as nothing but NTP traffic is on that port, it clearly shows traffic going to and from the NTP server.
                                      So we know that the the network is just fine between the firewall and three ports between both NTP servers.

                                      A little while ago, I disabled all the LAN firewall rules, then restarted the NTP service.

                                      As per usual, all of the LAN NTP servers were unreachable and yet time.apple.com quickly was selected out of the six other options.

                                      (For anyone who cares, I logged various NTP servers around the world for over two and half years at my work. time.apple.com is by far the most reliable and fastest. I'm pretty sure they have a decent time server in most countries, even if the traceroute takes you back to the USA. Not ONE of ANY of the public pools of NTP servers were reliable. I would NEVER recommend using pools of any NTP servers.

                                      I've established several times to my satisfaction that my firewall is contacting both NTP servers and totally ignoring them.
                                      I'm thinking that it's a kernel level problem now.

                                      johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • johnpozJ
                                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @admacdo
                                        last edited by

                                        @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

                                        I'm thinking that it's a kernel level problem now.

                                        no its not.. I use a local ntp server - and there are zero issues syncing time from it both on 24.11 and 2.8..

                                        There are many people here running their own local ntp - its not a pfsense issue.. Its something unique to your setup.

                                        "Anyway, the second NTP server has two interfaces which can be independently configured"

                                        Why would you have your ntp server mult-homed. But that could be a problematic if firewall is blocking it because of changes in rules - where traffic not allowed unless you set states back to floating.

                                        bound.jpg

                                        the only way I can duplicate your problem is if I set custom acl so that my ntp server is ignored

                                        generate.jpg

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                                          admacdo @johnpoz
                                          last edited by

                                          @johnpoz
                                          Well, it's not unique to mine if at least five other people had the same thing happen when they updated to 2.7.

                                          Ordinarily, I wouldn't have the NTP server multi homed.
                                          That particular server has two ports. One for admin and NTP and the other for only responding to NTP requests. That's the side that I'd have available to the internet if I wasn't on asynchronous It occurred to me that I could simulate another network for faultfinding with that port, so I configured it to have it's own A class network. It works perfectly for everything plugged into it, except the firewall.

                                          On the weekend, I'm going to configure the SG-1100 and see what it does when it's plugged into that port.

                                          It is just incredibly annoying that my original NTP test lab setup had up to six stratum one NTP servers of various types and everything talked to them. I've designed and installed industry best practice NTP systems for federal government departments and absolutely everything in them never had an issue once it was correctly configured. I'd never seen literally thousands of machines all within sub millisecond sync before.
                                          And then I got my pfsense box and had it graphing with good numbers and then excellent numbers with a local NTP server, so was starting to increase the count when 2.7 turned up.... and then that was the end of things.

                                          I was hoping that 2.8 would mysteriously fix it, particularly when people were talking about patches. I have one resource who is a FreeBSD god and I'm at the point of inviting him over, but I'll never hear the end of not keeping my FreeBSD server running...

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                                          • stephenw10S
                                            stephenw10 Netgate Administrator @admacdo
                                            last edited by

                                            @admacdo said in NTP Issue:

                                            but I'll never hear the end of not keeping my FreeBSD server running...

                                            Ha! Sometimes it's a price you have to pay. 😁

                                            But I'd be amased if the ntp client in pfSense is actually seeing the replies from the server. It's almost certainly being dropped somehow before it reaches it.The only other thing I can think of would be the client itself rejecting the replies but since you're not using any sort of ntp auth I have no idea why it would.

                                            How are you checking this traffic? I would want to use pcaps on either end to be sure. Make sure the IPs and MACs all line up.

                                            But also checking the outbound ntp state on the firewall. That must show two way traffic if replies are coming back and being passed.

                                            Yes the interface bound states change would be my first suspect here except that it wasn't in 2.7.X. 🤔

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