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    NTP - poor reach after 20 hours

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General pfSense Questions
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    • johnpozJ
      johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @johnpoz
      last edited by

      @farmerjohn I think @bingo600 is going to reach out to you via PM with a ntp server you can point too.

      I could also have you point directly to my IP, my local ntp server is part of the pool.. This way if know your IP can sniff to see if the queries are even getting to me, etc.

      An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
      If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
      Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
      SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • F
        farmerjohn @johnpoz
        last edited by

        @johnpoz

        Do you have a vps or something you can fire up, and run ntp server on it - and see if you can talk to that?

        unfortunately no - only on my LAN, but that probably doesn't count.

        Do you have your IP listed in the ntp pool or something?

        no, just china and some other unknowns hitting me via 123

        Are you noticing any other issues with your internet connection.

        One thing I've done recently is enable fq_codel and under general settings / advanced / Firewall & NAT, lowered "TCP Established" to 86400 and "Firewall Optimization" from conservative to normal.

        Also setup openvpn on OPT1 and getting a lot of blocked 853 traffic in log, but have not noticed any connectivity issues browsing on openvpn clients.
        pfsense-resolver-853-b.png

        AKEGECA johnpozJ 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • AKEGECA
          AKEGEC @farmerjohn
          last edited by

          @farmerjohn smart move to use Quad9 DNS, it blocks a lot malicious sites.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • johnpozJ
            johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
            last edited by johnpoz

            Those are all out of state blocks.. see the R and Fs those are RST and FIN packets.. Those are what close a session. If the session has already been closed then those would be blocked. etc..

            But why are you seeing them on opt1? And your hiding what I assume is your public IP that ends in .37 there? Why would that traffic be inbound to opt1? Is that .37 IP your hiding a rfc1918 address on your internal network?

            An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
            If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
            Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
            SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

            F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • F
              farmerjohn @johnpoz
              last edited by

              @johnpoz

              ip that ends in .37 is my public IP.

              Why would that traffic be inbound to opt1?

              i wish i could answer that.

              here is a short sample of tcpdump, I'm terrible at interpreting this, but posted here in case something obvious.

              17:45:02.408011 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 43242, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
                  my.public.ip.037.res.spectrum.com.62388 > time-a-b.nist.gov.ntp: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, length 48
              	Client, Leap indicator:  (0), Stratum 0 (unspecified), poll 0 (1s), precision 0
              	Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: (unspec)
              	  Reference Timestamp:  0.000000000
              	  Originator Timestamp: 0.000000000
              	  Receive Timestamp:    0.000000000
              	  Transmit Timestamp:   0.000000000
              	    Originator - Receive Timestamp:  0.000000000
              	    Originator - Transmit Timestamp: 0.000000000
              17:45:02.449490 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 48, id 27186, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
                  time-a-b.nist.gov.ntp > my.public.ip.037.res.spectrum.com.62388: [udp sum ok] NTPv3, length 48
              	Server, Leap indicator:  (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 13 (8192s), precision -29
              	Root Delay: 0.000244, Root dispersion: 0.000488, Reference-ID: NIST
              	  Reference Timestamp:  3827598208.000000000 (2021/04/16 17:43:28)
              	  Originator Timestamp: 0.000000000
              	  Receive Timestamp:    3827598302.430281727 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
              	  Transmit Timestamp:   3827598302.430282955 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
              	    Originator - Receive Timestamp:  3827598302.430281727 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
              	    Originator - Transmit Timestamp: 3827598302.430282955 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
              
              
              johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • johnpozJ
                johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
                last edited by johnpoz

                @farmerjohn said in NTP - poor reach after 20 hours:

                i wish i could answer that.

                OPT1 is what interface? And why would the source of the traffic "into" opt1 be your public IP? That makes ZERO sense..

                How would you be seeing inbound traffic into a lan side interface with your public IP On it???

                I don't even see how that would be possible???

                An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • AKEGECA
                  AKEGEC
                  last edited by

                  @farmerjohn Things are not always what they seem. It doesn't mean that China hits on you, it could be some bad actors who work at your local bank or organization and use China's network. Johnpoz is right, it's very strange inbound connections on OPT1.

                  Just a suggestion, you could make a new outbound floating rules with selected all interfaces and blocks China networks. In your case, make two aliases, one for ChinaNet and the other ChinaUnicorn. After that see firewall log, which interfaces are blocked.

                  ChinaNet:

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                    AKEGEC
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                    ChinaUnicorn:

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                    johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • johnpozJ
                      johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @AKEGEC
                      last edited by johnpoz

                      Zero reason to block those - they are already blocked by the default block rule on the wan. The only reason you would block is to not log them.

                      Or if you had port forwards, and you didn't want specific IPs to hit your port forwards.

                      I think there is something really odd with your setup... I just don't see how some opt1 interface, or any interface at all really would ever see your own IP as inbound traffic for a block.. Makes zero sense..

                      Even if you had 2 wan interfaces, and opt1 was another wan interface.. Why would wan 1 send traffic to wan2 with destination other than your wan2 IP, etc..

                      How about you draw up how you have everything connected. And exactly what is this opt1 interface? What IP do you have on it? Just at a complete loss to how you would see such traffic..

                      Normally you have say this

                      internet -- wan (pfsense) lan/optX -- your networks(s)

                      How could you ever see traffic from your wan IP, hitting your lan side interfaces, or really any other interface even a wan?? If if you had your wan and lan on the same L2 network.. Why would your wan be sending traffic to your opt1 mac address? Just at a loss to how you are seeing such traffic..

                      edit?

                      Also setup openvpn on OPT1

                      Huh?? Still at a loss to how you would see source traffic of your external IP? Opt1 is setup as vpn client interface? Lets take a look at the details of exactly how your setup.. And if you have some vpn client setup... Turn all that off! Atleast while trying to figure out why your ntp is show sporadic in getting responses. We can always walk through how to correctly setup some vpn client after you fix your original ntp issue.

                      An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                      If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                      Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                      SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                      F 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • F
                        farmerjohn @johnpoz
                        last edited by

                        @johnpoz
                        em0 - WAN
                        em1 - LAN
                        ovpnc4 (vpn provider) - OPT1. i have a few clients on LAN that use this as gateway.

                        pfsense-NAT-outbound.png

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • F
                          farmerjohn @johnpoz
                          last edited by

                          @johnpoz

                          Turn all that off!

                          ok - disabled 1. VPN / client / my provider and 2. the LAN rule for OPT1 gateway (vpn_clients alias).

                          The NTP status seems to have suddenly improved after just 10 minutes. looks like will be all 377's in a few minutes! so what did I do wrong with my vpn client setup?

                          [2.5.1-RELEASE][admin@pfsense.home]/var/log: ntpq -p
                               remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                          ==============================================================================
                          +time.cloudflare 10.14.12.181     3 u   79  256  377   22.335   -1.920   0.680
                          -rolex.netservic 64.113.44.55     2 u  210  256  177   27.977   +1.981   1.938
                          +rb.steadfastdns 208.100.0.253    2 u   48  256  177   22.434   -1.686   4.161
                          -time.skylineser 130.207.244.240  2 u  120  256  177   25.379   -3.370   0.421
                          *n1.taur.dk      .PPS.            1 u   36  256  177  131.326   -2.014   3.197
                          
                          
                          
                          johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • johnpozJ
                            johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
                            last edited by johnpoz

                            @farmerjohn

                            Why would you set this?

                            this.png

                            Or the other one for wan? for 127/8 ?

                            Not sure why you would set hybrid for something your doing in auto anyway?

                            edit: Did you setup a static on opt1 and set a gateway? Auto nat would of never created that unless it thought it was a normal wan connection, a gateway was put on it??

                            But it never would of set those ports? Really confused on how that would of be auto generated like the description says.

                            An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                            If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                            Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                            SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                              farmerjohn @johnpoz
                              last edited by

                              @johnpoz

                              Did you setup a static on opt1 and set a gateway? Auto nat would of never created that unless it thought it was a normal wan connection, a gateway was put on it??

                              no static routes. here are the Gateways.Screenshot from 2021-04-16 22-27-36.png

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                                farmerjohn @johnpoz
                                last edited by

                                @johnpoz
                                Regarding NAT rules, I copied the wan rules and adjusted for OPT1 according to vpn provider's instructions.

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                                • johnpozJ
                                  johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
                                  last edited by johnpoz

                                  @farmerjohn said in NTP - poor reach after 20 hours:

                                  according to vpn provider's instructions.

                                  And what clueless vpn was this? Do you have a guide you followed?

                                  Yah normally need just 1 hybrid rule ;)

                                  lookatthat.png

                                  edit:
                                  BTW.. Even if you wanted to send other traffic down a vpn connection from pfsense - your dns for example. If wouldn't ever be a good idea to try an do ntp through a vpn connection.

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                                  SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                                    farmerjohn @johnpoz
                                    last edited by

                                    @johnpoz
                                    Travelling for next few days, will try your example when get back. Thank you.

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                                      farmerjohn @johnpoz
                                      last edited by farmerjohn

                                      @johnpoz
                                      I like the simplicity of your example, how would I get there from my current setup? Just delete All my NAT rules - clean slate?

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                                      • johnpozJ
                                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
                                        last edited by

                                        Yeah just delete all those hybrids you have.. No idea why any guide would say you need those.. Especially those with specific ports 1024:65k

                                        What guide did you follow?

                                        Also the other thing pretty much every vpn service guide I have looked at wants you to route everything through them.. When most likely you don't want that.. Don't pull routes in your client config, and then just policy route what "you" want to send down the vpn. Which could be all if you want, but ntp down a vpn is going to be a horrible setup.

                                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
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                                        SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                                          farmerjohn
                                          last edited by

                                          @johnpoz
                                          I deleted all the Outbound NAT rules and added one as you suggested. I also disabled 'pull routes' in client config. Everything working well so far and NTP status is still showing 377's for the five individual servers.

                                          I presently have 1.1.1.1 and 9.9.9.9 in System > general > DNS servers. Leak tests showing VPN public IP (good) and DNS servers as cloudflare and quad9 (should I care? Is it cloudflare trust vs VPN provider trust?). Here are my DNS Resolver settings in case I'm wrong/confused on something.

                                          pfsense-DNS-Resolver-settings.png

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