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    NTP - poor reach after 20 hours

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General pfSense Questions
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    • F
      farmerjohn @johnpoz
      last edited by farmerjohn

      @johnpoz
      I enabled the two logging options. here are the last 15 - not sure if 'unreachable' lines are a concern or normal.

      [2.5.1-RELEASE][admin@pfsense.home]/var/log: cat ntpd.log | tail -15
      Apr 16 11:45:37 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 142.147.92.5
      Apr 16 11:45:41 pfsense ntpd[76193]: 69.89.207.99 101a 8a sys_peer
      Apr 16 11:45:41 pfsense ntpd[76193]: 45.79.51.42 0014 84 reachable
      Apr 16 11:46:44 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 209.50.63.74
      Apr 16 11:47:52 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 142.147.92.5
      Apr 16 11:49:02 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 75.76.123.222
      Apr 16 11:49:02 pfsense ntpd[76193]: 75.76.123.222 0011 81 mobilize assoc 33714
      Apr 16 11:49:03 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 184.105.182.7
      Apr 16 11:49:03 pfsense ntpd[76193]: 75.76.123.222 0014 84 reachable
      Apr 16 11:50:12 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 172.86.181.78
      Apr 16 11:51:18 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 72.14.181.128
      Apr 16 11:52:25 pfsense ntpd[76193]: Soliciting pool server 213.32.40.221
      Apr 16 11:52:38 pfsense ntpd[76193]: 216.177.181.129 0014 84 reachable
      Apr 16 11:54:29 pfsense ntpd[76193]: 69.89.207.99 0613 83 unreachable
      Apr 16 11:55:52 pfsense ntpd[76193]: 45.79.51.42 0013 83 unreachable
      
      
      johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • johnpozJ
        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
        last edited by johnpoz

        your prob going to want to look at more than the last 15 entries..

        But unreachable isn't good no..

        You can tell from your reach numbers your having a real hard time getting responses from the ntp your trying to talk too..

        Those numbers your showing for reach values are not indicative of good connectivity.. Take your numbers and convert the octal number to a 8 digit binary and you can see response or no response for the last 8 you have sent.. To that specific IP.. When you are seeing the numbers you are seeing.. You have hard time talking to those ntp servers.. Be it they are not getting your query, or they are not just answering.. But those reach numbers are not good for keeping good time..

        edit:
        Maybe vs using pool, try some specific one that are in your geographic area
        https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Servers/StratumOneTimeServers
        https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Servers/StratumTwoTimeServers

        There are plenty of ntp you can specific point to on the net.. You normally want something close as possible to you, to min the delay. But you for sure need something you can reliably talk too..

        Add say time.cloudflare.com

        They have like 180+ locations via anycast.. You should be able to hopefully talk to something reliable via that..
        https://developers.cloudflare.com/time-services/ntp/usage

        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
        SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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        • F
          farmerjohn
          last edited by

          @johnpoz
          Changed to 5 individual servers closest to me. Here is status after 20 minutes:

          [2.5.1-RELEASE][admin@pfsense.home]/var/log: ntpq -p
               remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
          ==============================================================================
           time.cloudflare .INIT.          16 u    -  512    0    0.000   +0.000   0.000
           rolex.netservic .INIT.          16 u    -  512    0    0.000   +0.000   0.000
           rb.steadfastdns 208.100.0.253    2 u  176   64   74   18.244   +0.095   1.642
           time.skylineser .INIT.          16 u    -  512    0    0.000   +0.000   0.000
          *ntp.your.org    204.9.51.33      2 u  701   64    0   20.320   +0.466   0.460
          
          
          johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • johnpozJ
            johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
            last edited by johnpoz

            Those are not working ;)

            Your isp blocking ntp?

            The only one your talking to at all with a reach of 74?

            so 00111100..

            An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
            If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
            Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
            SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

            F 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • F
              farmerjohn @johnpoz
              last edited by

              @johnpoz
              how can i determine if isp is blocking ntp? There is some 123 traffic on WAN interface getting blocked - not sure if due to isp.

              I tried to upload image to make things easier for you to troubleshoot, but received notification "something went wrong while parsing server response netgate"

              johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • F
                farmerjohn @johnpoz
                last edited by

                @johnpoz
                upload works on diffeerent browser (firefox-yes, brave no-go)
                pfsense-ntp-wan-01.png

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • johnpozJ
                  johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
                  last edited by johnpoz

                  @farmerjohn said in NTP - poor reach after 20 hours:

                  There is some 123 traffic on WAN interface getting blocked - not sure if due to isp.

                  Yeah doesn't sound good.. If that was your return answer from your ntp query..

                  As to tell if its an isp/internet issue - would sniff on your wan, you would see your ntp queries go out - but never get a response in your sniff. As to that being your isp blocking, or just getting lost in the internet, or the place your trying to talk not answering you - that is the question..

                  Do you have a vps or something you can fire up, and run ntp server on it - and see if you can talk to that?

                  If you get a glitch trying to post an image, try again in a few minutes. In the past I have had issues posting images, but try again in few minutes and normally works.

                  Are you noticing any other issues with your internet connection. Are your states resetting? If your states reset, then yeah return of a ntp query would be blocked because there is no state to allow the traffic back in. Yeah udp is not stateful ;) But pf keeps track of it via a state entry..

                  edit: Are any of those IPs of NTP servers your trying to talk too?

                  Doesn't look like it because the source port is not 123.. Looks like they are asking you for ntp.. Do you have your IP listed in the ntp pool or something?

                  An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                  If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                  Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                  SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                  bingo600B F 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • bingo600B
                    bingo600 @johnpoz
                    last edited by

                    @johnpoz

                    Just looked up the 123.170.x.x's
                    I doubt they are NTP ansvers šŸ‘¼

                    7dd9e80e-9c48-4bbb-9fd2-2e154c2b8b13-image.png

                    Seems like CN "probes"

                    /Bingo

                    If you find my answer useful - Please give the post a šŸ‘ - "thumbs up"

                    pfSense+ 23.05.1 (ZFS)

                    QOTOM-Q355G4 Quad Lan.
                    CPUĀ  : Core i5 5250U, Ram : 8GB Kingston DDR3LV 1600
                    LANĀ  : 4 x Intel 211, DiskĀ  : 240G SAMSUNG MZ7L3240HCHQ SSD

                    johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • johnpozJ
                      johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @bingo600
                      last edited by

                      Yeah if it was him asking the source port would be different... That seems to be quite a few probes ;) Maybe that is causing him some grief in trying to get ntp working?

                      An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                      If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                      Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                      SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                      johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • johnpozJ
                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @johnpoz
                        last edited by

                        @farmerjohn I think @bingo600 is going to reach out to you via PM with a ntp server you can point too.

                        I could also have you point directly to my IP, my local ntp server is part of the pool.. This way if know your IP can sniff to see if the queries are even getting to me, etc.

                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                        SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • F
                          farmerjohn @johnpoz
                          last edited by

                          @johnpoz

                          Do you have a vps or something you can fire up, and run ntp server on it - and see if you can talk to that?

                          unfortunately no - only on my LAN, but that probably doesn't count.

                          Do you have your IP listed in the ntp pool or something?

                          no, just china and some other unknowns hitting me via 123

                          Are you noticing any other issues with your internet connection.

                          One thing I've done recently is enable fq_codel and under general settings / advanced / Firewall & NAT, lowered "TCP Established" to 86400 and "Firewall Optimization" from conservative to normal.

                          Also setup openvpn on OPT1 and getting a lot of blocked 853 traffic in log, but have not noticed any connectivity issues browsing on openvpn clients.
                          pfsense-resolver-853-b.png

                          AKEGECA johnpozJ 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • AKEGECA
                            AKEGEC @farmerjohn
                            last edited by

                            @farmerjohn smart move to use Quad9 DNS, it blocks a lot malicious sites.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • johnpozJ
                              johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
                              last edited by johnpoz

                              Those are all out of state blocks.. see the R and Fs those are RST and FIN packets.. Those are what close a session. If the session has already been closed then those would be blocked. etc..

                              But why are you seeing them on opt1? And your hiding what I assume is your public IP that ends in .37 there? Why would that traffic be inbound to opt1? Is that .37 IP your hiding a rfc1918 address on your internal network?

                              An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                              If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                              Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                              SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                              F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • F
                                farmerjohn @johnpoz
                                last edited by

                                @johnpoz

                                ip that ends in .37 is my public IP.

                                Why would that traffic be inbound to opt1?

                                i wish i could answer that.

                                here is a short sample of tcpdump, I'm terrible at interpreting this, but posted here in case something obvious.

                                17:45:02.408011 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 255, id 43242, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
                                    my.public.ip.037.res.spectrum.com.62388 > time-a-b.nist.gov.ntp: [udp sum ok] NTPv4, length 48
                                	Client, Leap indicator:  (0), Stratum 0 (unspecified), poll 0 (1s), precision 0
                                	Root Delay: 0.000000, Root dispersion: 0.000000, Reference-ID: (unspec)
                                	  Reference Timestamp:  0.000000000
                                	  Originator Timestamp: 0.000000000
                                	  Receive Timestamp:    0.000000000
                                	  Transmit Timestamp:   0.000000000
                                	    Originator - Receive Timestamp:  0.000000000
                                	    Originator - Transmit Timestamp: 0.000000000
                                17:45:02.449490 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 48, id 27186, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 76)
                                    time-a-b.nist.gov.ntp > my.public.ip.037.res.spectrum.com.62388: [udp sum ok] NTPv3, length 48
                                	Server, Leap indicator:  (0), Stratum 1 (primary reference), poll 13 (8192s), precision -29
                                	Root Delay: 0.000244, Root dispersion: 0.000488, Reference-ID: NIST
                                	  Reference Timestamp:  3827598208.000000000 (2021/04/16 17:43:28)
                                	  Originator Timestamp: 0.000000000
                                	  Receive Timestamp:    3827598302.430281727 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
                                	  Transmit Timestamp:   3827598302.430282955 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
                                	    Originator - Receive Timestamp:  3827598302.430281727 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
                                	    Originator - Transmit Timestamp: 3827598302.430282955 (2021/04/16 17:45:02)
                                
                                
                                johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • johnpozJ
                                  johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @farmerjohn
                                  last edited by johnpoz

                                  @farmerjohn said in NTP - poor reach after 20 hours:

                                  i wish i could answer that.

                                  OPT1 is what interface? And why would the source of the traffic "into" opt1 be your public IP? That makes ZERO sense..

                                  How would you be seeing inbound traffic into a lan side interface with your public IP On it???

                                  I don't even see how that would be possible???

                                  An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                  If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                  Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                  SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • AKEGECA
                                    AKEGEC
                                    last edited by

                                    @farmerjohn Things are not always what they seem. It doesn't mean that China hits on you, it could be some bad actors who work at your local bank or organization and use China's network. Johnpoz is right, it's very strange inbound connections on OPT1.

                                    Just a suggestion, you could make a new outbound floating rules with selected all interfaces and blocks China networks. In your case, make two aliases, one for ChinaNet and the other ChinaUnicorn. After that see firewall log, which interfaces are blocked.

                                    ChinaNet:

                                    1.180.0.0/14 
                                    1.192.0.0/13 
                                    1.204.0.0/14 
                                    1.48.0.0/15 
                                    1.50.0.0/16 
                                    1.68.0.0/14 
                                    1.80.0.0/13 
                                    1.92.0.0/20 
                                    101.248.0.0/15 
                                    101.248.0.0/16 
                                    103.8.32.0/24 
                                    106.0.4.0/22 
                                    106.108.0.0/15 
                                    106.110.0.0/15 
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                                    • AKEGECA
                                      AKEGEC
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                                      ChinaUnicorn:

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                                      johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • johnpozJ
                                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator @AKEGEC
                                        last edited by johnpoz

                                        Zero reason to block those - they are already blocked by the default block rule on the wan. The only reason you would block is to not log them.

                                        Or if you had port forwards, and you didn't want specific IPs to hit your port forwards.

                                        I think there is something really odd with your setup... I just don't see how some opt1 interface, or any interface at all really would ever see your own IP as inbound traffic for a block.. Makes zero sense..

                                        Even if you had 2 wan interfaces, and opt1 was another wan interface.. Why would wan 1 send traffic to wan2 with destination other than your wan2 IP, etc..

                                        How about you draw up how you have everything connected. And exactly what is this opt1 interface? What IP do you have on it? Just at a complete loss to how you would see such traffic..

                                        Normally you have say this

                                        internet -- wan (pfsense) lan/optX -- your networks(s)

                                        How could you ever see traffic from your wan IP, hitting your lan side interfaces, or really any other interface even a wan?? If if you had your wan and lan on the same L2 network.. Why would your wan be sending traffic to your opt1 mac address? Just at a loss to how you are seeing such traffic..

                                        edit?

                                        Also setup openvpn on OPT1

                                        Huh?? Still at a loss to how you would see source traffic of your external IP? Opt1 is setup as vpn client interface? Lets take a look at the details of exactly how your setup.. And if you have some vpn client setup... Turn all that off! Atleast while trying to figure out why your ntp is show sporadic in getting responses. We can always walk through how to correctly setup some vpn client after you fix your original ntp issue.

                                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
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                                        F 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • F
                                          farmerjohn @johnpoz
                                          last edited by

                                          @johnpoz
                                          em0 - WAN
                                          em1 - LAN
                                          ovpnc4 (vpn provider) - OPT1. i have a few clients on LAN that use this as gateway.

                                          pfsense-NAT-outbound.png

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • F
                                            farmerjohn @johnpoz
                                            last edited by

                                            @johnpoz

                                            Turn all that off!

                                            ok - disabled 1. VPN / client / my provider and 2. the LAN rule for OPT1 gateway (vpn_clients alias).

                                            The NTP status seems to have suddenly improved after just 10 minutes. looks like will be all 377's in a few minutes! so what did I do wrong with my vpn client setup?

                                            [2.5.1-RELEASE][admin@pfsense.home]/var/log: ntpq -p
                                                 remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                                            ==============================================================================
                                            +time.cloudflare 10.14.12.181     3 u   79  256  377   22.335   -1.920   0.680
                                            -rolex.netservic 64.113.44.55     2 u  210  256  177   27.977   +1.981   1.938
                                            +rb.steadfastdns 208.100.0.253    2 u   48  256  177   22.434   -1.686   4.161
                                            -time.skylineser 130.207.244.240  2 u  120  256  177   25.379   -3.370   0.421
                                            *n1.taur.dk      .PPS.            1 u   36  256  177  131.326   -2.014   3.197
                                            
                                            
                                            
                                            johnpozJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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