SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing

stephenw10

Yes that value is misleading. We hope to replace that with the actual drive space the BE uses.

mrneutron

@stephenw10 said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

Yup you have an early 1100 there. Later devices show:
[24.03-RELEASE][admin@1100-3.stevew.lan]/root: mmc extcsd read /dev/mmcsd0rpmb
=============================================
  Extended CSD rev 1.8 (MMC 5.1)
=============================================
I would try a clean install. If the eMMC really has failed the initial part of that will also fail to clear the drive.

@stephenw10
I bought 2 SG-1100s in fall 2019.

I'm going to try a reload of ver. 24.03 with the Network Installer USB stick tonight.
Netgate Support told me I can use a GPT partition with ZFS in an SG-1100.

If my emmc memory is failing, is there a replacement/repair option?
Perhaps a discount on a purchase of a new SG-1100?
Do the newer models of SG-1100 have an emmc memory problem?

stephenw10

The eMMC write life has not changed significantly as far as I know.

Minimum drive writes can be achieved by using UFS, disabling SWAP and enabling RAM disks.

mrneutron

@stephenw10 said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

The eMMC write life has not changed significantly as far as I know.

Minimum drive writes can be achieved by using UFS, disabling SWAP and enabling RAM disks.

I've just used the SG-1100 as-is out of the box - no exotic configurations with the command line, etc.
It was MBR file system when it arrived in 2019.
ZFS file system was only possible with with 23.09 upgrade, as I recall.

If my emmc memory is failing, is there a replacement/repair option?
Perhaps a discount on a purchase of a new SG-1100?

mrneutron

OK. I tried to use the Online Network Installer USB drive image.
FAIL
It booted and asked if I wanted to install...yes.
It asked where to find the config.xml file.../config/config.xml on the USB drive.
It asked which interface to use to connect to Netgate Servers...WAN.
It asked which file system...ZFS.
It asked which partition system...GPT.
It asked to choose the ZFS Configuration...stripe (is the default, for a single disk).
It asked to select a disk to include in the ZFS configuration...mmcsd0 7.3G MMCHC
It started to partition....then "Installation aborted" (click OK)
"Failed to commit the file system changes...RESTART / EXIT"

I told it to RESTART and I tried again with ZFS and MBR...."Installation aborted" again.

PXL_20240508_013706798 (Custom).jpg PXL_20240508_013743939 (Custom).jpg PXL_20240508_013807623 (Custom).jpg PXL_20240508_014040114 (Custom).jpg PXL_20240508_013954488 (Custom).jpg

stephenw10

If you choose to drop to the shell at that point you can review the install logs in /var/log and /tmp. That should tell you why it aborted.

There's no way to replace the eMMC on the 1100, it's on-board.

mrneutron

@stephenw10 said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

If you choose to drop to the shell at that point you can review the install logs in /var/log and /tmp. That should tell you why it aborted.

There's no way to replace the eMMC on the 1100, it's on-board.

Which specific files will show the evidence? /var/log/system.log? /var/log/messages?

IF the emmc is failing on early SG-1100 units, does Netgate offer a discount on a purchase of a new SG-1100?

SteveITS

@mrneutron said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

SG-1100s in fall 2019

That's 4.5 years ago... I think you're confusing "failing" with "reached end of write life" meaning "too much has been written to it." Do you have any of the "SSD" packages listed at https://www.netgate.com/supported-pfsense-plus-packages installed?

Solid state storage has a finite write life. eMMC is much shorter than SSD, and SSDs are far larger so can spread writes out more.

mrneutron

@SteveITS said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

@mrneutron said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

SG-1100s in fall 2019

That's 4.5 years ago...

So, are you saying that Netgate hardware cannot be expected to last more than 4 years?

Do you have any of the "SSD" packages listed at https://www.netgate.com/supported-pfsense-plus-packages installed?

Solid state storage has a finite write life. eMMC is much shorter than SSD, and SSDs are far larger so can spread writes out more.

I have never loaded any SSD packages.
The SG-1100 does not have an SSD, or have an option to add an SSD.

SteveITS

@mrneutron said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

SG-1100 does not have an SSD

I'm aware. I meant, a package like NtopNG or HAProxy or Snort/Suricata, as listed in the "Storage Requirements" column. I believe Squid used to be listed there while it was supported. I'm not trying to argue with you, just asking.

As for product life time, we've had clients with routers in service a long time. Disk life depends on what is written to disk. Everyone's use case varies. We typically turn off the logging of default block rules, and set a RAM disk, among other things. Some people like to log everything, and watch the dashboard all day which logs every web server request.

stephenw10

@mrneutron said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

Which specific files will show the evidence?

root@pfSense-install:/tmp # ls /tmp
.ICE-unix               .font-unix              bsdinstall_log          recovered_config
.X11-unix               bsdinstall_boot         install-log.txt         tmp.GEB2CtRhSn
.XIM-unix               bsdinstall_etc          mnt_recovery

Check install-log.txt and bsdinstall_log from /tmp.

mrneutron

I just saw this thread on longevity of the emmc in the 1100.
https://forum.netgate.com/topic/170128/emmc-write-endurance

It looks like ZFS creates more disk writes than UFS.
But, we needed to move to ZFS in order to upgrade to the 2023 versions of firmware so we have ZFS now, and need to deal with it, or watch them get eaten alive.

It sure seems like Netgate needs to roll in some kind of endurance measures into the stock firmware (like a RAMDISK?) to prevent ZFS from wearing out the emmc up prematurely.

It looks like the SG-2100 has an option for an SSD, so maybe it would be able to avoid getting eaten alive by the ZFS and the OS?
"Storage: 8 GB eMMC Flash onboard (or optional 128 GB M.2 SATA 2242 SSD)"
https://shop.netgate.com/products/2100-max-pfsense

stephenw10

You don't need to use ZFS, you can install the 1100 as UFS. RAMdisks can be enabled, as I said, and UFS with RAMdisks is the lowest drive write setup.

mrneutron

@stephenw10 said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

You don't need to use ZFS, you can install the 1100 as UFS. RAMdisks can be enabled, as I said, and UFS with RAMdisks is the lowest drive write setup.

But, with the upgrade to 23.03, the original UFS file system had an EFI partition that was too small to allow the upgrade, and Netgate really pushed moving to the ZFS file system, so I did.
see:
https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/troubleshooting/upgrades-1100-2100.html?hsCtaTracking=821601fb-1bc2-40c2-a65d-a631bcb219c6%7C58f3d6cd-6fd1-4339-9a58-ddc137771e9f&utm_campaign=Foundation%3A%20pfSense%20Buyer%20Journey&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--GmK5dXE7vgA1GS5OzPAVHtgCngk0W1FTR_1DzWcO44Ln61FfJPsxbaSBLCk838-KAr59MaQso_lFGhB1EovOSU53itA&_hsmi=249746989&utm_content=249746989&utm_source=hs_email

stephenw10

Yes, there are advantages to using ZFS but I'm just pointing out that you don't have to. You can still install UFS if you want to.

mrneutron

@stephenw10 said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

Yes, there are advantages to using ZFS but I'm just pointing out that you don't have to. You can still install UFS if you want to.

Thanks for pointing that out.
I had interpreted the Netgate ZFS recommendation as a requirement for upgrading to the 23.xx firmware. Now, that I reread it, I see that recommendation was just tacked on to the end of the reimage instructions, required to increase the size of the EFI partition.

Given my presumed emmc failure experience with the SG-1100, I'm hesitant to buy another one and have a lifespan that is less than other options.

My desire was for the SG-1100 to be more of an easy-to-use network appliance like a Linksys or a Netgear router.
The SG-1100 was behaving like that until changing from UFS the ZFS (on Netgate's recommendation) in fall 2023, due to my 2019 SG-1100s having the small EFI partition.

mrneutron

@SteveITS said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

@mrneutron said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

SG-1100 does not have an SSD

I'm aware. I meant, a package like NtopNG or HAProxy or Snort/Suricata, as listed in the "Storage Requirements" column. I believe Squid used to be listed there while it was supported. I'm not trying to argue with you, just asking.

As for product life time, we've had clients with routers in service a long time. Disk life depends on what is written to disk. Everyone's use case varies. We typically turn off the logging of default block rules, and set a RAM disk, among other things. Some people like to log everything, and watch the dashboard all day which logs every web server request.

Ok, fair enough. I just wanted to be sure you were keeping the scope of the possible fixes/changes confined to the limitations of the SG-1100.

I'm really a very basic pfsense user. I've got an OpenVPN tunnel running from my home end to a remote end. That's about it beyond the normal firewall functions that come with pfsense. My desire was for the SG-1100 to be more of an easy-to-use network appliance like a Linksys or a Netgear router.
Having an SG-1100 unit that has presumed emmc failure after 4 years, requiring hardware replacement, isn't cool.
If Netgate knows that their emmc gets overly taxes, they should roll longevity precautions (like RAMDISK) into the pfsense OS by default and give us a checkbox to turn it on.

terryzb

@mrneutron

Have a look at System->Advanced->Miscellaneous->RAM Disk Settings

https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/config/advanced-misc.html#ram-disk-settings

mrneutron

@terryzb said in SG-1100 update from 23.09.1 to 24.03 keeps failing:

@mrneutron

Have a look at System->Advanced->Miscellaneous->RAM Disk Settings

https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/config/advanced-misc.html#ram-disk-settings

@terryzb
Thanks! I'll check and see if my SG-1100 has that enabled.

stephenw10

Indeed there is checkbox to turn it on. But perhaps a further question might be whether it should be enabled by default in some configurations. It does restrict what you can use. And it obviously uses RAM which is important on the 1100 which only has 1GB.

One potential option here is that the new Net Installer will install to any available drive including USB. It's possible to install to a USB drive and boot from that.
It does require manually changing the bootcmd env in uboot though.