Watchguard Firebox M400/M500

gilphilbert · Apr 19, 2024, 1:36 AM

@stephenw10 No, because my plan was to put this in my office... but that plan has now changed and it's going in a different room. Chances are I'll actually re-install the original fans for better cooling. When I do, I'll let you know what temps I get

acsaba · Jun 20, 2024, 5:10 AM

@gilphilbert I appreciate your effort.
I have an M500 and I have tried to boot Firebox with the provided image and I do not have serial console access. The cable is good ( I have connection with the original firmware), so the question is if the image should work with M500. As I have seen in the specs, the motherboard is the same. In addition it is not clear for me if I need to reset the BIOS before to use the image or after.
I appreciate any feedback in this matter.

Many thanks.

stephenw10 · Jun 20, 2024, 1:00 PM

I used it on an M500. It's identical to the M400 other than the CPU and RAM which shouldn't make any difference for this.

Did you use the original CF card?

acsaba · Jun 20, 2024, 6:31 PM

@stephenw10
No, I have another CF and I have tried with USB stick as well. I have successfully boot Arc loader and ubuntu core.
Many thanks for your feedback. I will keep working on it.

stephenw10 · Jun 20, 2024, 8:23 PM

It won't boot USB with the original BIOS but if you've got a CF that will boot at all that should work.

acsaba · Jun 21, 2024, 8:15 AM

@stephenw10 said in Watchguard Firebox M400/M500:

iI won't boot USB with the original BIOS but if you've got a CF that will boot at all that should work.

I can boot with the original bios using USB stick As I have mentioned, I did this couple of times.
The condition is to remove the CF.

stephenw10 · Jun 21, 2024, 1:46 PM

Hmm, curious. I never managed to make that work before flashing the BIOS.

acsaba · Jun 21, 2024, 2:23 PM

@stephenw10

login-to-view

I manage to install Synology DMS 7.2 using an arc-24.6.2.img, then installed an SSD.
The boot is still on the USB stick.

I just ordered i5-4590T CPU as replacement for the original one and 8 GB CF to not brake the original CF.
I will keep you posted.

iJay-XTM5 · Jun 26, 2024, 3:48 AM

This M500 may have an unlocked bios, otherwise, it would not boot from USB IIRC. I had to unlock the bios through the serial console using the password others have posted in this forum. I was able to enable USB booting after unlocking the bios and successfully booted from a USB flash drive that had the USB memstick installer (Serial Console). I chose to install pfsense on the internal CF card as I did not want to open the box. The box boots off the CF now without a fuss.
I upgraded the CPU to an i5-4590T and installed low noise fans on my M400 previously, but it hangs on reboot every single time, so I left the M500 's original configuration as is.

acsaba · Jun 26, 2024, 5:13 AM

@iJay-XTM5
Appreciate your feedback. I have a second M500 (I used both in datacenter in HA mode), so I can test on this as well. Yesterday did the CPU update and I'm looking forward to replace the fans as well. Unfortunately a low noise fan is expansive, so in case you have any hint please share with me.

Regarding CPU temperature, it is ~60-62C in full load with the original fans.

stephenw10 · Jun 26, 2024, 6:36 PM

You can lower the fan speed existing fans to reduce the noise using WGXepc

That seems quite hot though. I assume you replaced the heatsink compound when you fitted that?

acsaba · Jun 26, 2024, 6:36 PM

@stephenw10 said in Watchguard Firebox M400/M500:

That seems quite hot though. I assume you replaced the heatsink compound when you fitted that?

Yes. I did.

What is a normal temperature on your end ?
Many thanks.

stephenw10 · Jun 26, 2024, 6:58 PM

Depends on the ambient temp I guess but for a 'T' rated CPU I expect lower. My M500 with a 4670S runs slightly cooler than that at max:

last pid: 57560;  load averages:  4.20,  3.66,  2.22                                                                     up 0+00:13:56  19:53:36
187 threads:   9 running, 157 sleeping, 21 waiting
CPU 0: 29.1% user,  0.0% nice, 70.9% system,  0.0% interrupt,  0.0% idle
CPU 1: 29.9% user,  0.0% nice, 70.1% system,  0.0% interrupt,  0.0% idle
CPU 2: 30.7% user,  0.0% nice, 69.3% system,  0.0% interrupt,  0.0% idle
CPU 3: 32.7% user,  0.0% nice, 67.3% system,  0.0% interrupt,  0.0% idle
Mem: 106M Active, 9212K Inact, 339M Wired, 118M Buf, 7411M Free
Swap: 192M Total, 192M Free

  PID USERNAME    PRI NICE   SIZE    RES STATE    C   TIME    WCPU COMMAND
44930 root        135    0    12M  2076K RUN      2  10:53  99.97% yes
44987 root        135    0    12M  2072K CPU1     1  10:52  99.88% yes
44788 root        135    0    12M  2072K CPU0     0  10:54  99.87% yes
45189 root        135    0    12M  2068K CPU3     3  10:52  99.86% yes
    0 root        -60    -     0B   672K -        3   0:00   0.05% [kernel{if_config_tqg_0}]
57560 root         20    0    14M  3992K CPU2     2   0:00   0.03% top -HaSP
    6 root        -16    -     0B    16K pftm     0   0:00   0.02% [pf purge]

[24.03-RELEASE][root@m500.stevew.lan]/root: sysctl dev.cpu.0.temperature dev.cpu.1.temperature dev.cpu.2.temperature dev.cpu.3.temperature
dev.cpu.0.temperature: 58.0C
dev.cpu.1.temperature: 54.0C
dev.cpu.2.temperature: 57.0C
dev.cpu.3.temperature: 55.0C

The fans are pretty loud at that point!

[24.03-RELEASE][root@m500.stevew.lan]/root: ./WGXepc64 -f
Found Firebox M400/500
Current fanspeed is 78, minimum fanspeed is 1b

Also it's the hotest day of the year today in the UK so the ambient is ~30C in my 'office'.

acsaba · Jun 26, 2024, 7:17 PM

@stephenw10
Many thanks for the info. I will replace the heatsink compound again. Currently I'm using a Ceramic polysynthetic thermal compound which should not be bad :)

stephenw10 · Jun 26, 2024, 7:56 PM

I wouldn't expect to need anything too special there. Just not trying to reuse the crusty stuff Lanner put on it 10 years ago!

For reference at mostly idle I see:

[24.03-RELEASE][root@m500.stevew.lan]/root: sysctl dev.cpu.0.temperature dev.cpu.1.temperature dev.cpu.2.temperature dev.cpu.3.temperature
dev.cpu.0.temperature: 40.0C
dev.cpu.1.temperature: 38.0C
dev.cpu.2.temperature: 40.0C
dev.cpu.3.temperature: 42.0C
[24.03-RELEASE][root@m500.stevew.lan]/root: ./WGXepc64 -f
Found Firebox M400/500
Current fanspeed is 2e, minimum fanspeed is 1b

chpalmer · Jul 6, 2024, 5:08 PM

Don't know if anyone else has tried yet (and I have no reason to think it wouldn't work but..) I successfully upgraded to Pfsense+ on my M400 today running an i5 processor..

More to support Netgate and Pfsense than anything.. but in case anyone else is holding back.. ;)

xxup · Feb 15, 2025, 6:10 AM

More news on the Intel CPUs that don't reboot properly on M400/500.

Intel i3-4350T - is also no good.

After re-reading this thread, the conclusion is that only the i3-4130 seems to work correctly.

stephenw10 · Feb 15, 2025, 4:20 PM

The i5-4670S reboots correctly. And provides a nice performance upgrade.

Not quite as low power as one of the i3-T CPUs but not much difference at low loads.

chpalmer · Feb 15, 2025, 6:28 PM

@acsaba not sure how I missed your original posts but my Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4590T generally sits at 50C.. I did replace the fans with a quieter model linked earlier in this thread.. and they're not running anywhere near full speed.

This is also the first I'm seeing about some Intel CPUs not rebooting correctly.. Guess I have to do some rereading because mine seems to have that issue.

acsaba · Feb 15, 2025, 7:19 PM

@chpalmer In the meantime I solved the problem installing arch Linux and controlling the fan speed properly. For the moment I'm not using the WG because of the power consumption and noise, so I will convert back to the original WG firmware.
Anyhow, many thanks for sharing the info.
Keep in touch.