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What would you choose between these 2 mini-itx fanless systems? (J1900 vs N3150)

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  • I Offline
    icest0rm
    last edited by Mar 3, 2017, 2:53 PM

    qotom is a lot more affordable than apu2 (around 120 eur vs. 250 eur)  ::)

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    • M Offline
      Mithrandir
      last edited by Mar 3, 2017, 7:36 PM

      APU2 is 180Euro full bundle: enclosure, 16GB mSata SSD, power supply and board.

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      • V Offline
        VAMike
        last edited by Mar 3, 2017, 8:54 PM

        @icest0rm:

        qotom is a lot more affordable than apu2 (around 120 eur vs. 250 eur)  ::)

        well, that's why I said "in your area". if you can get the qotom for 120 including ram, storage, etc., and the apu2 costs more then it's an easy choice. from where I'm buying the apu2 ends up cheaper, but I understand that they aren't as competitive in other regions.

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        • I Offline
          icest0rm
          last edited by Mar 7, 2017, 4:24 PM

          @Mithrandir:

          APU2 is 180Euro full bundle: enclosure, 16GB mSata SSD, power supply and board.

          where please?

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          • M Offline
            Mithrandir
            last edited by Mar 7, 2017, 10:46 PM

            @icest0rm:

            @Mithrandir:

            APU2 is 180Euro full bundle: enclosure, 16GB mSata SSD, power supply and board.

            where please?

            http://varia-store.com/Hardware/PC-Engines-Bundles/APU-2C4-Bundles/APU2C4-Embedded-Box-Bundle-1GHz-4GB-RAM-3x-LAN::29135.html

            It's almost 200E now. Was 180 when I was ordering last week.

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            • C Offline
              curtisgrice
              last edited by Mar 9, 2017, 8:58 PM

              Of the two, I would get the Qotom Q190G4N-S07. Unless your pushing 100+mbit over vpn I would not thing twice about the AES-NI. Also Intel NICs WILL save you time and hasel down the road. I have had some many issues with realtek nics (esp. multiport cards) doing completely asinine things, its just not worth messing with them in any server/router platform.

              Personally, I got the 2440 Netgate box and LOVE it. Its been rock solid and I know it will be supported 100%

              Slow code? Sounds like a good reason to buy more hardware!

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              • J Offline
                jimp Rebel Alliance Developer Netgate
                last edited by Mar 10, 2017, 3:28 PM

                I am definitely biased but I wouldn't choose either one of those, for a number of reasons.  :-X

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                • B Offline
                  bingo600
                  last edited by Mar 11, 2017, 6:38 PM

                  @jimp:

                  I am definitely biased but I wouldn't choose either one of those, for a number of reasons.  :-X

                  Care to elaborate a bit please ?

                  I'm a pfsense newbie , just considering my first install
                  https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=127036.0

                  If i like it , i have been eyebaling the "black" one , as i only need VPN for "home" usage.

                  /Bingo

                  If you find my answer useful - Please give the post a 👍 - "thumbs up"

                  pfSense+ 23.05.1 (ZFS)

                  QOTOM-Q355G4 Quad Lan.
                  CPU  : Core i5 5250U, Ram : 8GB Kingston DDR3LV 1600
                  LAN  : 4 x Intel 211, Disk  : 240G SAMSUNG MZ7L3240HCHQ SSD

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                  • M Offline
                    messerchmidt
                    last edited by Mar 12, 2017, 5:15 AM

                    would go n3150

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                    • B Offline
                      bingo600
                      last edited by Mar 12, 2017, 7:13 PM

                      @messerchmidt:

                      would go n3150

                      Might do so too , but the "Box" shown has realtek IF's.
                      Some users here says that they have problems with getting the 2'nd IF to forward packages.

                      /Bingo

                      If you find my answer useful - Please give the post a 👍 - "thumbs up"

                      pfSense+ 23.05.1 (ZFS)

                      QOTOM-Q355G4 Quad Lan.
                      CPU  : Core i5 5250U, Ram : 8GB Kingston DDR3LV 1600
                      LAN  : 4 x Intel 211, Disk  : 240G SAMSUNG MZ7L3240HCHQ SSD

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                      • L Offline
                        lansmurf
                        last edited by Mar 13, 2017, 8:29 AM

                        Have you also taken a look at the Shuttle DS67U ? It is fanless, has got two Intel Nics, and a Celeron 3855U CPU which supports AES NI !    https://ark.intel.com/products/92211/Intel-Celeron-Processor-3855U-2M-Cache-1_60-GHz. This processor is according the benchmarks in the same leaque as the N3160.
                        I am considering this one besides the Zotac CI325 but the CI325 has Realtek NICS  :( …

                        pfSense 2.4.0 on Shuttle DS77U

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                        • I Offline
                          icest0rm
                          last edited by Mar 13, 2017, 10:06 AM

                          @jimp:

                          I am definitely biased but I wouldn't choose either one of those, for a number of reasons.  :-X

                          thanks jimp, can you please detail the reasons so I can follow you? :)

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                          • W Offline
                            Waqar.UK
                            last edited by Mar 13, 2017, 2:33 PM

                            @messerchmidt:

                            would go n3150

                            I am thinking of buying the n3150, but as someone pointed out, new Intel goldmont CPU's are coming out. Realtek has been proven to work with the current vesion of pfsense but what is the through put? Is it stable gigabit wan and lan?

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                            • P Offline
                              psensible
                              last edited by Mar 14, 2017, 6:11 AM

                              Get the Quotom (disclaimer, I am using one happily).

                              AES-NI, according to anything I've managed to read on this forum, is an extremely dubious advantage for your typical smaller scale setup.

                              10W vs 6W is utterly trivial in terms of power savings.

                              Why buy yourself NIC compatibility problems with the N3150 option?

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                              • W Offline
                                Waqar.UK
                                last edited by Mar 14, 2017, 10:37 AM

                                @psensible:

                                Get the Quotom (disclaimer, I am using one happily).

                                AES-NI, according to anything I've managed to read on this forum, is an extremely dubious advantage for your typical smaller scale setup.

                                10W vs 6W is utterly trivial in terms of power savings.

                                Why buy yourself NIC compatibility problems with the N3150 option?

                                Fair enough.

                                But: "AES-NI, according to anything I've managed to read on this forum, is an extremely dubious advantage for your typical smaller scale setup."

                                Can you point where please?

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                                • V Offline
                                  VAMike
                                  last edited by Mar 14, 2017, 11:32 AM

                                  @Waqar.UK:

                                  But: "AES-NI, according to anything I've managed to read on this forum, is an extremely dubious advantage for your typical smaller scale setup."

                                  If your bandwidth is low enough, anything modern can keep up using openvpn. AES-NI is only really a factor if you're doing higher speeds (but: those are becoming more common, which is why it's talked about so much here). If you have no chance to upgrade past a 50Mbps connection for the life of the hardware, it's a non-issue.

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                                  • I Offline
                                    icest0rm
                                    last edited by Mar 14, 2017, 2:04 PM

                                    @lansmurf:

                                    Have you also taken a look at the Shuttle DS67U ? It is fanless, has got two Intel Nics, and a Celeron 3855U CPU which supports AES NI !    https://ark.intel.com/products/92211/Intel-Celeron-Processor-3855U-2M-Cache-1_60-GHz. This processor is according the benchmarks in the same leaque as the N3160.
                                    I am considering this one besides the Zotac CI325 but the CI325 has Realtek NICS  :( …

                                    this does cost around 500 euros here :(

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                                    • B Offline
                                      bingo600
                                      last edited by Mar 14, 2017, 4:36 PM

                                      @icest0rm:

                                      @lansmurf:

                                      Have you also taken a look at the Shuttle DS67U ? It is fanless, has got two Intel Nics, and a Celeron 3855U CPU which supports AES NI !    https://ark.intel.com/products/92211/Intel-Celeron-Processor-3855U-2M-Cache-1_60-GHz. This processor is according the benchmarks in the same leaque as the N3160.
                                      I am considering this one besides the Zotac CI325 but the CI325 has Realtek NICS  :( …

                                      this does cost around 500 euros here :(

                                      I see them on ebay for around 300$  (+ Ram & HDD)
                                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Shuttle-Ds67u-1-6Ghz-3855U-Bga1356-1-3L-Sized-Pc-Barebone-DS67U-/401281338907

                                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shuttle-DS67U-1-6GHz-3855U-BGA1356-1-3L-sized-PC-Schwarz-PC-Workstation-B-HY614-/352003310020

                                      Not often prices goes up (Recommended retail 226€) , maybe thats wo. VAT
                                      http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=48834

                                      This one looks interesting too , dual intel NIC
                                      But has fans) , and i suppose no CPU.

                                      Shuttle XPC slim DQ170
                                      http://www.shuttle.eu/products/slim/dq170/

                                      /Bingo

                                      If you find my answer useful - Please give the post a 👍 - "thumbs up"

                                      pfSense+ 23.05.1 (ZFS)

                                      QOTOM-Q355G4 Quad Lan.
                                      CPU  : Core i5 5250U, Ram : 8GB Kingston DDR3LV 1600
                                      LAN  : 4 x Intel 211, Disk  : 240G SAMSUNG MZ7L3240HCHQ SSD

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • M Offline
                                        motific
                                        last edited by Mar 15, 2017, 2:44 PM

                                        I have pretty much that exact N3150 box and it has been fine certainly since 2.3, no packet loss issues or other problems that I'm aware of (so far) - I'm currently on the 2.4 development builds.  I've given it a big list for pfBlockerNG to chew on and it's very happy.

                                        Personally I wouldn't bother with the wifi in your firewall, give that work to a dedicated access point instead.

                                        Intel NICs are the way to go though, irrespective of if the realteks are (or are not) any good they get a lot less driver support and are likely to be the first thing to cop the flak should a problem occur and they're not top of the pile should a fix need doing as the community mostly use Intel.  Certainly they add some extra overhead to the CPU where the Intels tend to have a lot more built-in capability.

                                        I went with the N3150 box as I needed an HDMI display output but would have been better off with the J1900 and Intel box in the long run.

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                                        • P Offline
                                          pfBasic Banned
                                          last edited by Mar 15, 2017, 5:45 PM

                                          @VAMike:

                                          @Waqar.UK:

                                          But: "AES-NI, according to anything I've managed to read on this forum, is an extremely dubious advantage for your typical smaller scale setup."

                                          If your bandwidth is low enough, anything modern can keep up using openvpn. AES-NI is only really a factor if you're doing higher speeds (but: those are becoming more common, which is why it's talked about so much here). If you have no chance to upgrade past a 50Mbps connection for the life of the hardware, it's a non-issue.

                                          It could still be useful in low bandwidth applications if you are trying to do a lot with the box.
                                          In an ideal scenario you would buy just enough machine to do what you need seamlessly, in which case AES-ni would still matter.

                                          But in reality we just about all have hardware that dramatically outclasses our needs so yeah, then it doesn't matter.
                                          Most of the modern low end hardware recommended for 50Mbps connections is really powerful relative to those needs, even the cheapest stuff.

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