Seamless roaming
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@JKnott Could point out an affordable set?
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@Qinn said in Seamless roaming:
@JKnott Could point out an affordable set?
Ubiquity.
https://www.ui.com/products/#unifi
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@JKnott said in Seamless roaming:
The controller can check the signal strength at each AP and then transmit to the client from the best.
Not exactly true.. While cisco does support some neat features on helping the client roam.
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/solutions/Enterprise/Mobility/RToWLAN/CCVP_BK_R7805F20_00_rtowlan-srnd/CCVP_BK_R7805F20_00_rtowlan-srnd_chapter_0101.html
WLAN clients may roam based solely on their software capabilities or they may rely on assisted roaming capabilities provided by the WLAN infrastructure APs. In the case of client controlled roaming, the client is responsible to determine if it needs to roam, and then detects, evaluates, and roams to an alternative AP.
Want to point out the specific use of the term "assisted"... While controller can try and help push a client to a different AP.. The client is the one that makes the switch.. If its a shit client and doesn't want to move, then it doesn't move.. The most a AP do is prevent a specific client from talking to it.. But you can see a stubborn client just bang its head against the same AP even when the AP doesn't want it to connect, and there is a another AP with just fantastic signal strength right there..
Now there is the directed client roaming where the controller says hey move to this one..
Directed roam request—This feature enables the controller to send directed roam requests to the client in situations when the controller can better service the client on an access point different from the one to which it is associated. In this case, the controller sends the client a list of the best access points that it can join. The client can either honor or ignore the directed roam request. Non-CCX clients and clients running CCXv3 or below must not take any action. No configuration is required for this feature.
But make sure you notice the non-ccx clients or clients that don't support ccxv4 or higher.. And also notice the "The client can either honor or ignore the directed roam request" part..
When it comes down to it, the client decides.. While there are standards to help facilitate the transition to a different AP.. Other than blocking the client from connecting to a specific AP.. The transition is up to the client.. 802.11r and k can help with this. There are also f and v protocols. But the client also has to support these protocols..
Unless you have a really large budget and could go with cisco.. The suggested unifi stuff is the some of the best way to get some advanced functionality of wifi at a reasonable home/smb price. And there are for sure atleast talk of support for r,k and v protocols.. V would be the one you would want that allows to controller and the client to talk and the controller to suggest the best AP to talk to.. You for sure would want to make sure you have the latest HD models of their AP if you want the more advanced stuff. They even have a wifi 6 AP in beta.. Which you can get from the beta store U6-Lite-US-BETA
You can setup min rssi values in unifi as well
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/221321728-UniFi-Understanding-and-Implementing-Minimum-RSSIThis is pretty much keeps a client with a shit connection from connecting to that specific AP.. you really do not want clients with shit connections talking to your AP... because this slows it down for all clients on that AP..
I run 3 unifi AP in my house.. And have seen zero issues with clients moving between AP... As the clients move about the house they switch all the time.. And I can see that in the logs on the controller..
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@John why does the log say, than when you move from kitchen to guestroom, you stay on channel 36 or is that still the same AP and could you recommend one from unifi? Btw it would be nice if I had could have access on the outside of the house, so awide range would be nice or is wide range contradictory to roaming.
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https://youtu.be/0RbKb38rIvE
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@Qinn said in Seamless roaming:
kitchen to guestroom, you stay on channel 36 or is that still the same AP
Because those AP are running on the same channels - they are on different ends of the house.. There is no reason they can not be on the same channel they are not close enough to interfere with each other on 5ghz
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@johnpoz Clear and could have a look at the second part of my question please?
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You can for sure put AP outside, unifi has a few different models that can work outside..
Also to finish up on the channel selection using VHT 80, so there are really only 2 choices 36 and 149 that do not overlap. So 36 used on the 2 AP that farthest from each other, and 149 used on the AP in the middle of the 2..
In my case the kitchen AP is really close to my patio door and it gives good coverage out on my patio..
https://unifi-flexhd.ui.com/
The flexHD can be mounted outside - that is prob what I would use for outside coverageI just put a flexHD in my son's new house for him -- pretty slick from the limited time I had to play with it... But his house reports into my controller.. So I can keep an eye on the details of how the wifi is working.
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You say only 36 and 149 for 5GHz? So that only leaves 20MHz on 5GHz and not using the 40MHz and 80MHZ
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No there are lots of 5ghz channels.. I am talking about ones that don't over lap when using vht 80..
If a client connects just using 20 or 40 on 5ghz they use those channels.. If they connect at 80 they use 4 or the channels..
Not sure I understand your question or concern there..
Does this help?
Could play with the DFS (52-144) channels as well - but lots of clients don't like those.. I can see easy which clients are connected using 80 vht via the PHY they are connected at.
So clearly those clients with a 867 PHY are using 80vht or 4 of the 20mhz channels starting at 149 and then going up.. If they were only using 40, then they would show a different phy..
You understand that client can connect using a 20 or 40 vht, and then another client can use 80 right.. But if your base channel you set on the AP doesn't allow the different numbers of channels to be used without overlap you can have issues..
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@johnpoz I see you need software to access the AP of Unifi, personally I would rather access an AP with it's IP so login to a webserver, but I can overcome ;)
I see they sell a Ubiquiti UniFi Cloud Key do you use this?
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You can use an app on your phone to set up the unifi aps.
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No I just run the controller in a ubuntu vm on my nas... You can manage the AP with just their phone app.. But you loose out on lots of the bells and whistles - and most important information easy to read in a simple to call up webgui..
It doesn't really need much horsepower, and can really run on almost anything. windows, macos, linux. they have people running it on a pi, etc.
Best you someone has put out a docker version of it as well ;) let me check ;)
Yup: docker https://hub.docker.com/r/linuxserver/unifi-controller
Also keep in mind that you can turn on the controller, do whatever you settings you want to do - and then just turn it off.. The AP continue to do whatever.. You just will not get all the history sort of info about your clients and the AP, etc.
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@johnpoz Am I correct in concluding that the only difference is that with accessing an most AP's your using a browser with Unifi you need a piece of software, so in both cases you need a PC anyway.
I don't know if you use 2,4GHz and if so do you use bandsteering and RSSI Threshold and if so what are the settings you use?
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You need a piece of software for unifi because its a controller meant to manage multiple AP vs just single AP.. You can also run the controller in the cloud if you want, etc.
If all your going to run is single AP, a controller doesn't make a lot of sense.. But if you have more than 1, then you configure something once - and all the AP get that config - you don't have to touch each one..
Yes I do use 2.4, really the only reason is there are devices that only support 2.4 - or no I wouldn't run it.. But like my thermostat only 2.4.. Pretty much any sort of smart bulb or iot device only support 2.4.. So unless your talking only a network where all you have is phones and tablets sort of clients its not really possible currently to not do 2.4
Not real need for band steering - clients will move to 5ghz if its better from their point of view, and they support it.
But I do run min rssi.. .Have it currently set to -64 for 2.4 and -70 for 5.. Also output power of my AP is set to low for 5 and medium for 2.4.. More power is not always the solution for wifi ;)
The clients transmit is going to be the lowest level denomination most of the time.. So there is little reason that you client can see the signal from down the street, if his tx is not powerful enough for the AP to get back the signal..
Your almost never going to see billy bob user running unifi - unless one of his tech buddies talked him into it.. It really is more designed for the smb or the prosumer market.. They also have their ampli line of wifi more meant for end users that just want to plug shit in and have it work..
But being in the field and just an all around uber geek anyway... There is no possible way once got the taste of this sort of control of my wifi at reasonable prices could I ever go back to some end user shit ;) But my son out in CA just put in the google nest wifi, and he says it rocks.. He got that on my rec, he was looking at some utter crap ;) But for my other son in the area, I gave him a usgp3 had on my self, and he bought the flexHD.. So I can help him with any issues he has with his network ;) Since its just managed from my controller... At some point I will get him a pfsense box.. prob a sg1100 ;) But I had the usg just sitting on my shelf collecting dust anyway.
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It would be nice if that controller software could run on pfSense.
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@johnpoz said in Seamless roaming:
You need a piece of software for unifi because its a controller meant to manage multiple > But I do run min rssi.. .Have it currently set to -64 for 2.4 and -70 for 5.. Also output power of my AP is set to low for 5 and medium for 2.4.. More power is not always the solution for wifi ;)
So in your case that means that when a node gets as low as -64 on 2.4 GHz it gets kicked off that AP and when there is no stronger signal from an AP available connection is lost, although it could have stay connected?
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@JKnott said in Seamless roaming:
It would be nice if that controller software could run on pfSense.
There are some that have.. I have a copy of windows home server going here so thats what I do..
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My main Linux system is always up, so I could run it there, but it would be nice to have it on some network gear. With Cisco, the software is installed in switches.
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@johnpoz Which Unifi do you use and which would you advise, I need at least 4 vlan's per radio.
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@JKnott said in Seamless roaming:
With Cisco, the software is installed in switches.
No while some switches now can act as the controller.. Before you had to buy a piece of hardware, normally 2 of them.. And if they were not on... nothing worked. Current models are the 9800 WLC, but yeah they have gone with cloud and embedded and or virtual.. Same sort of thing with unifi, you can run the controller anywhere - or you can buy the cloud key to run it on.. Or if you get the new Dream Machine Pro it will run right on the router..
The controller doesn't have to be running 24/7 - its just nice if it is.
There are people that have installed it on their pfsense box - I would NOT recommend that at all.. If you were going to do it, then run pfsense as a vm, and run whatever else on that hardware as another vm..
If I was going to buy today I would buy either the nanoHD or the flexHD... Or if you have budget the HD or the https://unifi-shd.ui.com/
Currently running the UAP-AC-PRO, the lite and the LR.. the pro is in the hallaway, the LR is in the kitchen and the guestroom is the lite.
Nano or the flex are the big sellers because of pricepoint and features.. They do have a new wifi 6 lite model out in beta you could try as well ;)
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@JKnott said in Seamless roaming:
@Qinn said in Seamless roaming:
I need at least 4 vlan's per radio
Do you mean 4 SSIDs?
Yes a least 4 SSID's and you have be able to give them a VLAN ID/TAG
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That depends on the AP. My TP-Link only supports 4.
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@JKnott I know, that's why I asked John if it's available with the Unifi ;)
@Qinn said in Seamless roaming:
@johnpoz Which Unifi do you use and which would you advise, I need at least 4 vlan's per radio.
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So with the unifi sure you can do 4 ssids.. If you turn off monitoring and they are wired uplinks you can do 8.. So if you wanted you could do 8 on 2.4 and 8 on 5.. For a total of 16.
Or just get real fancy and do dynamic assigned vlans and just run 1 or 2 ssid and assign your vlans dynamically based on auth or mac... Now your unlimited to how many vlans you can run through your AP.
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@johnpoz Thanks John, I am beginning to "shift over" to Unifi ;) I think I will kick of with 2 X AP AC Pro.
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Get the nanoHD vs the Pro.. Really!!! Or the flexHD... No reason to buy the pro at this time..
I show the PRO on amazon for like 133, and the nanoHD for like 157.. For 25 bucks your nuts if you don't get the HD model vs pro..
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@johnpoz said in Seamless roaming:
Get the nanoHD vs the Pro.. Really!!! Or the flexHD... No reason to buy the pro at this time..
I show the PRO on amazon for like 133, and the nanoHD for like 157.. For 25 bucks your nuts if you don't get the HD model vs pro..
Thanks for the advise John, I think a nanoHD 2 pack it will be :)
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I just looked at the data sheet for that unit. I see they still support 802.11b. I wonder if anyone still uses that. I hope not, as it's a performance killer for the entire area. The local library stopped supporting it several years ago and I have my AP configured for N only, as every device I have is capable of N. It's a performance killer because every device that wants to use g or n has to go into b compatibility mode, where it sends a b frame to reserve time for the g or n frame. G only doesn't cause such a significant performance hit for n, as the n device just has to slow down the header, when there are g devices in the area.
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@Qinn said in Seamless roaming:
Thanks for the advise John, I think a nanoHD 2 pack it will be :)
Do the 2 packs come with PoE adapters? According to that video, single units came with them, but not the 5 packs. If I'm not mistaken, those Ubiquity APs can only be used with their injectors or their PoE switches, as the APs run on 24V.
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I don't think they sell a 2 pack ;) But @JKnott is right when you buy the multi pack they normally do not come with the injectors... Some old AP did use passive 24v poe, and that could be problematic.. But the current devices should be poe/poe+ (also known as af and at) and be able to powered from any poe switch that supports the correct poe.
New poe bt also coming out.
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Mine are using my POE panel on 48volts.
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@johnpoz said in Seamless roaming:
I don't think they sell a 2 pack ;) But @JKnott is right when you buy the multi pack they normally do not come with the injectors... Some old AP did use passive 24v poe, and that could be problematic.. But the current devices should be poe/poe+ (also known as af and at) and be able to powered from any poe switch that supports the correct poe.
New poe bt also coming out.
True the come in 1 or 3 pack, so I ordered 2 and will see if they can manage the space needed, it looks like they will arrive Tuesday, also ordered a 8 port managed switch that can handle 802.3af (PoE), 802.3at (PoE+), 802.3az.
Thanks to all, maybe need some assistance from you guys configuring them ;) -
Its the older AP that used the 24v passive stuff. If your curious you can look here
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000263008-UniFi-Supported-PoE-ProtocolsWhat switch did you get, a unifi one?
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@johnpoz No a Netgear GS310TP-100EUS, would you suggest a unifi one, why and which one would you advise jhon?
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No I really wouldn't suggest a unifi one.. Unless you wanted to go full on unifi ;)
Only thing would suggest, is always get more ports than you currently need - you can never have enough ports - hehehe
Thought shit my 28 port cisco sg300 would be more than I could ever need.. Well its pretty populated.. Glad I sure didn't go with the 20 port option..
edit: And more features.. When getting a switch, get as full managed as you can for your budget! You never know when you might need feature X.. And you saved a few bucks and your shiny new 6 month old switch doesn't support it ;)
Never know when you might want do say routing on the switch - so L3 might seem like nah never do that, and few months down the road.. Wow wish I could do that.. Or multicast acls, didn't think I would would ever use that in my home network - But I do.. And its one of my favorite features of the switch.. You would be amazed at how much crap some devices can spew onto the network.. Being able to just block it at the ingress point is nice..
edit2:
One feature I would for sure be looking for if in the market for a new switch would be 10ge support.. Better would be multigig 802.3bz with 10ge... Figured out how to add a 2.5gig usb nic to my nas, would of been better if could of just connected that to my switch vs having to connect it to my main pc via separate san.. -
@johnpoz said in Seamless roaming:
10ge
Wow, that are speeds!!
@johnpoz said in Seamless roaming:
... Figured out how to add a 2.5gig usb nic to my nas, w.2.5gig usb nic? you mean a 2,4 GHZ usb nic
Edit1: USB nic well can be very handy, I must say I favour wireless bridges, with antennas and no more hassle with drivers.
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No I mean a 2.5gbps ethernet nic via usb..
Multigig - 802.3bz allows for speeds of 2.5gbps and 5gbps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5GBASE-T_and_5GBASE-THere is the usb nic
https://www.club-3d.com/en/detail/2467/usb_3.2_gen1_type_a_to_rj45_2.5gbps_adapter/The only thing I dislike about my synology ds918+ nas is that no 10ge support.. Can not add card.. some of their other models do support adding 10ge cards. (hindsight is always 20/20 after you purchase) But someone figured out how to do the driver for these usb sorts of nics.. Its a bit of hassle since it haven't figured out how to auto bring up the nic on a reboot.. So you have to do a bit of manual enable on a reboot of the nas. But that really only happens on a OS update..
So originally - hey use of smb3 multichannel will get me 220ish MBps - that is all I will need ;) And that worked great.. Manual manipulation of the smb.conf.. Since its not really officially supported, hoping the dsm 7 when it comes out adds this to the gui, etc..
And was very happy with that - then ran across people playing with these 802.3bz usb nics.. And other guy got a 5gbps nic working.. But at 80$ each (my pc would need ability to do 2.5 gig as well - since no 10ge card or room to put one) and didn't really think my drive speeds could really fill up 5gbps pipe anyway.. Then someone posted that they got this cheaper $40 each nic to work with 2.5.. That could be a bit of a boost, and under the 100$ what did you buy now look from the wife ;) Figured hey locked down anyway (covid) little side project to play with.
At first thought hey could do smb3 multichannel with the 2x1 nics and the 2.5 nic for a total of 4.5 - but smb3 multichannel doesn't play that game :( if the interfaces are different speeds - it uses only the fastest one vs multiples..
So ended up going from 220ish MBps transfers to and from nas and my pc.. To 280ish - 50-60MBps bump.. Nothing to sneeze at for under $100 and a few minutes of play time setting it up.
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@johnpoz said in Seamless roaming:
2.5gbps
Through XPEnology ...? https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/17690-drivers-for-usb-30-to-ethernet-255-gbit/